How was real melee like?

[Molly]

I would imagine they were more like swinging for the fences in hope of hitting someone before being hit themselves while the adrenaline and fear for the own life kept them going.

[Berserkadin]

I would imagine they were more like swinging for the fences in hope of hitting someone before being hit themselves while the adrenaline and fear for the own life kept them going.

That depends, I imagine disciplined, well-trained and experienced soldiers could keep themselves cool and don't lose control over themselves. If you want to stay alive and fight effectively, you stay focused and calm in your mind. Going into a berserk-state would just get you killed.

[Prinz_Karl]

**** myself

Probably.

It sounds really bad because you can't go back, there is a meat wall in front, and behind you as well.

Also if you would have retired, it's desertion and you probably would have been killed by the commander. So while you have a very slight chance to survive when you attack and have no chance when retiring.

[Joker86]

Retreating?

[Overdriven]

I like the small shield wall fight they had in Vikings. They did some interesting stuff with it and showed how, although it was a giant shoving match, some smaller tactics could be employed.

[CrazyCracka420]

Yeah I really don't know if it was 5,10,15 or more minutes, just vaguely remember the time.

No clue how long that time would be either.  But just to give some perspective, in hockey a 2 minute shift is considered a long shift.  Also in boxing they have 3 minute rounds (I think that's standard in MMA as well), however most boxers and MMA fighters aren't exuding 100% energy the whole time.  If you're going full energy skating up and down the rink for 2 minutes, you're going to be absolutely exhausted.  If you were swinging a few pound melee weapon around at the same time, I imagine you'd be even more tired.  So I could see 5 minutes being a good time for rotating front line infantry.  But I have no clue how long that rotation was in reality, since the front line guys probably weren't exhausting themselves from running (which I think would exhaust you faster than blocking and swinging a weapon).  So I think anywhere from 5-20 minutes would be realistic.

Also here's LindyBeige's take on shield walls, he doesn't think the shield walls of both sides would go up against each other and have a "shoving" match as other people and historians have suggested.  AKA he is disputing the tactic that shieldwalls would go "shield to shield" head on into the enemy's shield wall

[Osiris]

his views are interesting however seem to be more focused on greek kind of shield walls which i would think would be fought from a greater distance and in a looser formation (ie shields with space in between so you can use your spear). Viking/saxon etc shield-walls i think would be very close together to allow the use of axes/swords in the front row and spears/long axes from the second or third and be compact (ie shields overlapping). I imagine it kind of like the vikings show did. Im not so sure about a shoving match tho. But this is why we love history different theories and ideas pop up all the time.


basically to sum up how i would imagine a non phalanx shield wall its pretty much how bernard cornwell describes them in his Saxon chronicles

[Yaro]

Hi!

My question is rather simple: how was real melee like?

[NuberT]

looks somewhat like eu2, just missing facehugging-2h-hold-heroes dancing around :wink:

[Smoothrich]

rofl, something tells me most men-at-arms would act in better shape then those sad sacks who can barely lift their plastic polearm replicas

[Jarold]

I feel like those videos never represent a medieval fight accurately. The formations are probably not right, some guys don't fall down and play dead when they are supposed too, and they aren't fighting to the death. I also feel like they are practically tapping each other, which makes sense because you are not trying to kill each other.

[Paul]

rofl, something tells me most men-at-arms would act in better shape then those sad sacks who can barely lift their plastic polearm replicas

Afaik those are real metal weapons, albeit unsharpened. That kind of reenactment is brutal, one of the "sad sacks" even gets a falchion to the knee and is obviously seriously injured. Crazy Russians, they only disallowed maces.

[Christo]

rofl, something tells me most men-at-arms would act in better shape then those sad sacks who can barely lift their plastic polearm replicas

Smoothrich and his intelligent posting style strikes again

[the real god emperor]

How was the real melee like... hm. I can answer for how was it in Ottomans;

-The first few lines were filled with Bashibazouks, those fighters were trained to crash and die , so they had only like a 0.01% chance to stay alive.

-In the left and right parts , Akıncıs ( Raiders ) were trained, best in scouting, riding , and making fast attacks were taking part in the battle.

-After Bashibazouks , there were Sipahis with Akıncıs , they were cavalry too (Dragoons,horse archers etc.)

-In the core of the army, there were Janissaries , those men were fighting machines, because they didnt have any fear of death, belief was; if you die in the way of Jihad  , you will go to the Heaven. Also Janissaries could use any weapon , they were taken as children of war refugees, prisoners , villagers from Europe countries, which lost battle against them. Imo if you take a kid when he is 2, and train him until he is 21, he will be a real monster.

-And in the other flanks there were cannons , archers , Mehteran etc.

Allah is merciful. (!)

Hope this helps

[Joker86]

Afaik those are real metal weapons, albeit unsharpened. That kind of reenactment is brutal, one of the "sad sacks" even gets a falchion to the knee and is obviously seriously injured. Crazy Russians, they only disallowed maces.

Yeah, noticed that too.

Still I think those videos are nothing you can rely too much on, since those guys don't really try to kill each other, and thus are not afraid to die. Which changes everything.

On the other hand - those formations perhaps were not that unrealistic. It's always a group of reenactors, they all have the same banner. I do believe that if a landlord brought along a few men at arms to assist him in the fights, to carry his weapons and so on, he probably would try to organize them, and they would try to protect and help each other anyway (unless there are some personal quarrels within the group, of course. Then better be on the watch twice than normal!). So I think it's not that unrealistic that they make a small "testudo" to approach the enemies or something like that, if the lord says so. Illiterate or not, people probably did recognize the advantages staying together brings.