Author Topic: ETA on nudge removal  (Read 3873 times)

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Offline Necrorave

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Re: ETA on nudge removal
« Reply #30 on: June 19, 2013, 02:36:43 am »
0

most useful against: >                                  >Ultra defensive players (especially shielders) because they fall easily to the hold+nudge+kick+hit technique
Added a couple things to the one perk.

I do no think the nudge is a game changing feature, although I do think it needs to be changed before ALL classes get the ability to do it.  Which they will.

I like the nudge idea and want to keep it.  Although, the kick chain is just silly and sometimes impossible to avoid.  It is especially bad If they have a knockdown weapon, you are dead the second you are hit by a nudge because you will most likely get knocked down after the kick as well which means they get in all 2-3 hits because of a mere nudge.

I will agree with you that kick hit boxes are fucked.  I'm fine with the range buff, but the "Turn" mucks up the width of the hitbox badly.

Offline owens

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Re: ETA on nudge removal
« Reply #31 on: June 19, 2013, 05:26:41 am »
-2
I have to i dont see how nudge is weak against kicks it can knok a kicking player on his ass.

The fact that the stun from nudge is long enough to strike with a shortsword twice (once from the front once from the back), is also rediculous. Designed as a counter to facehugging+attack holding it instead encourages backpedaling from the target and facehugging from the 1h no shield. The issue has not been solved at all!

The instantantaneous nature of the nudge is also rediculous, this is my biggest issue with it.


In conclusion its only counter is heavy weapons, I dont mind this but.... The fact it mnost disadvantages 1H shield, hoplite and low level players is bazare. Honestly its the only truly bad thing that has ever happeed to cRPG. It breaks the flow of combat, looks terrible, is easy, is uncounterable and has no place in warband. No other class gets free hits. Combined with a mace a 1H player can potentialy nudge, hit, kick, hit, knockdown, hit. Thats 3 hits for the price of the v button and some facehugging. Thats (31blunt x 3) X PS_bonus. Around 70 damage when armour is included????


I repeat this was a good idea gone sour.

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Offline Paul

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Re: ETA on nudge removal
« Reply #32 on: June 19, 2013, 07:05:51 am »
+5
It's non-instantaneous after the patch. All your "problems" with it are resolved in the new build but I guess you can't grasp the meaning of that and keep on bitching - so go ahead. Maybe it's time to add emus to the game to keep the prison islander in check.

Offline HappyPhantom

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Re: ETA on nudge removal
« Reply #33 on: June 19, 2013, 07:15:07 am »
0
Quote
Maybe it's time to add emus to the game to keep the prison islander in check
Emus are too fricken scary. What about a giant killer koala?
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Offline owens

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Re: ETA on nudge removal
« Reply #34 on: June 19, 2013, 08:26:49 am »
-5
@Paul
(click to show/hide)

In most games when a grave mistake is made that patch is immediately reversed however cRPG devs dont seem to play their own game. I dont understand how this happened, I thought you guys had a testing team? Furthermore why it wasnt reversed immediately is beyond any comprehension. So many better things could have been done but instead time was wasted developing a feature that does not add to the game. In fairness that is the developement teams choice and this is a free to play mod.

This might help you on further mechanics additions
 
Quote
4 things we dont play warband for
bitch slaps
being stunned
to be facehugged
to s key
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Offline Paul

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Re: ETA on nudge removal
« Reply #35 on: June 19, 2013, 09:13:17 am »
+7
Your feedback is bad and you should feel bad. Nudge is awesome and it will stay - with adjustments. Your "grave mistake" bullshit is exaggerating to the max. I have yet to see nudge having a big impact on battle due to its short range. I also don't care about your list of what "we" don't like. If you don't like new stuff to be added play Native.

Offline Shaksie

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Re: ETA on nudge removal
« Reply #36 on: June 19, 2013, 09:59:14 am »
0
I for one think that the entire melee combat system should be bash (nudge is a pretty weasely name hehe).
Rather than feinting and holding which is what happens allday errday in Australia, I think combat should be about proper footwork, bashing people to put their timing and footwork off so you can chop them.
For example, I think the 1h bash should be the fastest; a simple punch or push (maybe a different system of control; short tap for punch and hold for push), 2h should be the slowest and perhaps weaker behind a polearm; a pommel strike where the tap could be a quick jab and the hold could be a push with the entire weapon. Polearm could be a short bash on tap and a push on hold, the push could be similar to the 2h one.
Shield bashes could be similar to the 1h bash except somewhat slower but much more effective.
Bashes should be very ineffective against a blocking enemy (perhaps take into account direction?); specifically one who is using a shield.
If timed properly; that is if someone is in a strange position: just missed a swing, just starting a swing, just missed a kick, you hit them anywhere but the front, they could have significantly increased effects, perhaps even a knockdown.
Nudge-kick chambering is strange, a cool idea but it looks very odd and people can block (and perhaps attack, I'm unsure) your next hit after you've knocked them down.
Also I think the cooldown is a little irritating, maybe remove the message and shorten the cooldown but give diminishing returns on consecutive bashes. This is where I see the biggest fault in them as a consistent user of nudges, I just keep nudging, stabbing in the face, nudging, stabbing, then if they try to nudge me, I will use sneaky footwork and kick them, stab them then nudge and stab them. With a Broad Short Sword, this does a pretty hefty amount of damage even as an archer with 6 ps and 50 wpf. Would do insane damage if I was a melee character with a loomed BSS.
I think somehow altering the controls to make it a keybind that works the same way as other keys; it only works at the specific time (not when you are typing, similarly to the throw key in rageball) and you can rebind it as you see fit.
Also I think it would be very cool indeed to see specific items have impacts on the speed, power and cooldown rate of bashes, as should player skills.
Finally I hope we can agree that the animations look a little silly :).

I for one love the idea of nudging, as shown by my wall of text ^. I really hope it is integrated into M:BG but less strangely.

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« Last Edit: June 19, 2013, 10:04:15 am by Shaksie »
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Offline Kafein

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Re: ETA on nudge removal
« Reply #37 on: June 19, 2013, 11:42:45 am »
+1
     After playing 1h no shield for the month or so that nudge has been out, I have come to the conclusion that nudge is

most useful against: >Slow/heavy armored players and people fighting in water, because it's harder for them to footwork their way out of a nudge
                                  >Ultra defensive players (especially shielders) because they fall easily to the hold+nudge technique
                                  >Players who are stuck/ immobile for any reason
                                  >New players


least useful against: >Backpedaling players
                                  >Players with long and heavy weapons (weapon stun)
                                  >Players who know good footwork, or know how to abuse kicks
                                  >Agi builds



     The way I see it, the nudge is for 1h+no shield is what the hiltslash is for 2h. They both take a fairly small time frame to learn, and longer to master.  When they are incorporated into someone's playstyle, they are great moves for quickly dispatching a player you know will fall for it so that you can quickly move on to another target.

     Is that a bad thing? Maybe. With 1h no shield you sacrifice quite a bit (range, damage, animations, weapon weight) for an admittedly pretty sick move, but I have to ask, how many strategus battles have there been where you have 1h no shielders in the top of the kills list? Or the top of the scoreboard? Personally, I have been in none where this was the case. It's usually a shielder with all the points, a 2h/polearmer/cav with all the kills, and the one or two dedicated 1h no shielders sitting dead middle. As for battle, I can only speak for my experience on the NA battle server where I spend most of my time playing, but Sandersson_of_Frisia and I are the only 1h no shielders I see topping scoreboards at all.

   

Nope. It's useful against everybody except spammers. Fight for a bit, hold, facehug and voila you can nudge your enemy basically without risk. There's no agi or str or weapon length thing involved here. Nobody can prevent the enemy to hold and facehug, except if you spam.

So, as it is now, nudges tend to promote spamming as a defensive measure, because that's their only working counter. I fail to see how is that in any possible way a good thing.

I have yet to see nudge having a big impact on battle due to its short range.

The prevalence of this move in a whole battle is irrelevant to assess its quality. In its current state it is simply bad, no matter the scale. That it has a small influence is an excuse, because if it was a good thing you wouldn't need to say "but it only worsens a small part of the game". I'm eagerly waiting for the next patch :D . I'd really like the potential of nudges as a counter to holds to be exploited, instead of a buff to them.

Offline Leesin

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Re: ETA on nudge removal
« Reply #38 on: June 19, 2013, 12:12:05 pm »
-1
Personally I think nudge will be perfect with the tweak Paul has mentioned, even though I wasn't actually bothered about it in the first place. I have only been nudge + kick comboed once, because I usually just kick any my old friend that tries to face hug me.

Offline Corsair831

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Re: ETA on nudge removal
« Reply #39 on: June 19, 2013, 12:41:47 pm »
-1
It will never get removed, just changed. Maybe Ozin's dodge stuff gets added too for more delicious tears.

you should change it so that, like, it does nothing, that'd be cool

why you thought you needed to add another kick i don't know, what are you trying to change crpg into a jackie chan movie ?
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Offline Kadeth

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Re: ETA on nudge removal
« Reply #40 on: June 19, 2013, 12:58:20 pm »
+4
Maybe it's time to add emus to the game to keep the prison islander in check.

I was temp banned on NA_1 for saying nigga, but this is acceptable?

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Offline Zlisch_The_Butcher

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Re: ETA on nudge removal
« Reply #41 on: June 19, 2013, 12:58:59 pm »
0
Nope. It's useful against everybody except spammers. Fight for a bit, hold, facehug and voila you can nudge your enemy basically without risk. There's no agi or str or weapon length thing involved here. Nobody can prevent the enemy to hold and facehug, except if you spam.

So, as it is now, nudges tend to promote spamming as a defensive measure, because that's their only working counter. I fail to see how is that in any possible way a good thing.

The prevalence of this move in a whole battle is irrelevant to assess its quality. In its current state it is simply bad, no matter the scale. That it has a small influence is an excuse, because if it was a good thing you wouldn't need to say "but it only worsens a small part of the game". I'm eagerly waiting for the next patch :D . I'd really like the potential of nudges as a counter to holds to be exploited, instead of a buff to them.
You can't be nudged (or kicked) while jumping, and it is much harder to nudge someone dodging sideways than backwards. Not saying nudges don't need alterations, but if you dodge creatively and don't just s/w key you will be much better against nudges.
1H stab is the fastest, strongest and longest 1H animation. There's no reason NOT to use it in all instances. I don't know if it's OP, but it's boring. 1H used to be fun because you had a fast (left), long (right) and the most devastating attack (stab) and had to choose the best attack for each occasion.

Offline owens

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Re: ETA on nudge removal
« Reply #42 on: June 19, 2013, 01:04:23 pm »
-5
This short range stuff is the biggest load i have ever heard.
It worries me that devs don't play. Visiting a server for 10 minutes does not count.
do you play warband?
surely you realise that forward movement is quicker than backwards movement in Warband?
you are one juiced up dude, everyone mistake admitting one is not a crime.



Ask real players what they actually think. Have a look at the plus and minus list on my first post.

You can see it pretty clearly forum bitches vs actual players
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Offline Corsair831

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Re: ETA on nudge removal
« Reply #43 on: June 19, 2013, 01:10:30 pm »
+1
You can't be nudged (or kicked) while jumping, and it is much harder to nudge someone dodging sideways than backwards. Not saying nudges don't need alterations, but if you dodge creatively and don't just s/w key you will be much better against nudges.

and what about, say, if you're a 6 athletics build with a shield, which in crpg weighs ~~ 6 weight, and he's a 7 athletics build with no shield? he is faster than you, therefore moving left and right helps you not a jot

keep in mind that most of the nudge spammers are aware of this and are making sure they're faster than most other players

edit: one thing i do know is that as it stands now, i can't even challenge a 1h without a shield to a fight because they're so ridiculously dangerous, they will almost --always-- win now simply by basic blocking until they land a succesful nudge / the already OP kicks. They have gone from perhaps the least dangerous enemy who was only ever useful duelling, to the most dangerous, to the point where killing them is just almost impossible.

Just for the love of chadz stop adding more win-buttons
« Last Edit: June 19, 2013, 01:16:25 pm by Corsair831 »
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Offline Necrorave

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Re: ETA on nudge removal
« Reply #44 on: June 19, 2013, 01:16:17 pm »
-1
This short range stuff is the biggest load i have ever heard.
It worries me that devs don't play. Visiting a server for 10 minutes does not count.
do you play warband?
surely you realise that forward movement is quicker than backwards movement in Warband?
you are one juiced up dude, everyone mistake admitting one is not a crime.



Ask real players what they actually think. Have a look at the plus and minus list on my first post.

You can see it pretty clearly forum bitches vs actual players

Sorry, but not sorry.

You are a idiot kid.

Stop trying to use your +1's as a crutch to your argument.  If they actually made a difference you still wouldn't matter.

You went from someone who doesn't make sense to someone who I should just ignore from now on.  Clearly you speak out of your ass and do not know what you are talking about half the time.