Author Topic: bringing order to the Chaos  (Read 20688 times)

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Offline Penguin

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Re: bringing order to the Chaos
« Reply #120 on: June 15, 2013, 11:03:55 am »
+11
Although Kesh and FCC will deny it, yes he has encouraged people to sign up and retract at the last minute as well as sign up and leech as a low level. I cannot disclose who told me this because I don't want to call him out. This also applies to the MB faction as well. It's quite an underhanded tactic that is pretty much exclusive to a few people in strat (never seen SS, Occitan, Tkov, etc. doing it) and really is just denying the people of crpg a competitive battle.
"As you gaze upon the cross, and long for conformity to him, be not weary or fearful because you cannot express in words what you seek. Ask him to plant the cross in your heart. Believe in him, the crucified and now living one, to dwell within you, and breathe his own mind there."

Offline Gristle

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Re: bringing order to the Chaos
« Reply #121 on: June 15, 2013, 11:14:12 am »
+2
All I know is Chaos was the clan that took a stand against DRZ last strat before they took over NA. Who were the NA factions mercing for DRZ during that time? Hospitaller, Occitan, and ATS. Hospitaller already met their deserved fate but there are 2 factions thriving that never got their comeuppance for kissing the feet of the Russians.

I remember when FCC took a stand against DRZ. Who do you think Chaos was with then?

Offline Matey

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Re: bringing order to the Chaos
« Reply #122 on: June 15, 2013, 11:19:15 am »
+1
oh my. another massive canary post. All quotes I shall address are from canary but i didnt want to quote his massive fucking quote-fest post cause then i would quote all his quotes and it would be horrific!

"sometimes it's better just to pit yourself against someone you know you won't be able stand up to for long. I've never approached the game from the perspective of trying to "win" any war I wanted to be a part of, either, and if you're only piggybacking on someone else's fight it can be tiresome."


I love this bit about you not approaching the game from that perspective. I guess you forgot about strat 2 when you became "good dogs" -Vovka of DRZ in order to survive and then turned on your friends with glee in the hopes of acquiring more internet lands; especially since it looked like you and DRZ would wipe us the fuck out pretty easy seeing as we had just expended all of our troops on the hosp castle.


" Your M.O. has been getting the support of numerous small clans by putting them into a situation where they feel as though they have no choice but to be your ally, even when it isn't made official. Granted, giving people things is great, encouraging small clans to exist is wonderful, and you're doing well to make the map more diverse (in color, at least; they are still your friends after all), but you have historically bunched up any small clan you could get your hands on in order to stack the odds in your favor."

In strat 2 we got all the help we could because we were up against the mercs who had help from everyone they could get it from. both sides were constantly bringing more people into the fray or getting help where they could... its why the war was endless. in strat 3 we were friends with NH I guess but thats about it for small clans kinda-sorta working with us. as for strat 4 we havent been running around asking everyone to help us out and so on... granted Kesh could address this better than I since he would know far more about it, but my understanding is that most if not all of the groups who we are working with or have sold land to... came to us.

"Here's a tangential point of fact: people such as RoR and AoW who will sign up for our rosters and then leave in the last three minutes before a battle begins and appear on the other side. The rumor I hear is that Kesh will urge people signed up on our side to switch teams. Bad on us for assuming (particularly with the AoWs, being in your faction now and all) that people just wanted in on the fight anyway they could get it and that nobody was actively griefing us. "

Bullshit. Kesh might go hunting for mercs and let people know we have room for them.. but he isnt going to get people to sign up on your side to eat slots and then have them switch last minute. Also, Kesh was complaining to me about how a bunch of people who were signed up for us all dropped last minute to join your side... but at least he didnt make up shit about it being part of some scumbag plan you had to screw us out of mercs.

"But I digress... Strat 2 was when you grouped up as many people as possible to take on the Northern Empire. I suppose they were the biggest threat at the time, and nobody realized how much we would wind up overestimating them... but you were certainly not against a wall once that NAP with the Mercs went through, and you gathered so many clans together because of a perceived threat. A perceived threat to rally people to your cause based on promises of land? That is not better than the allegation I made earlier."


That deal with mercs made it absolutely necessary for us to go on the offensive against a major faction in the hopes of acquiring land. We had a lot of people who had helped us a great deal in that war with the mercs and we wanted very much to be able to give them something in return; as such we planned on giving a large amount of the land we took from NE to those who had helped us previously. And yes we all expected NE to put up a much better fight. I would also like to point out that even before the war with NE was finished we already knew that DRZ was going to be attacking us the second our NAP wore off; granted we didnt expect our best friends (who constantly told us we didnt need any official alliance because we were so close that such things were unnecessary) would also attack us (while constantly reassuring me on steam that they wouldnt do such a thing without at the very least telling us first... while marching troops at us in preparations for a sneak attack)... basically we knew that things were still not going to be easy for us even after NE war was done. The only part of strat 2 that was easy for us was the week or so where we were fighting NE but it was overshadowed by the looming threat of DRZ and turning into another back against the wall situation.

"It seems like everyone underestimates our willingness to fight back; what about those aforementioned ridiculous attacks we made before seemed to indicate we wouldn't make stupid attacks against stuff we lost? You have an opportunity to defend in fun battles, here, and make us look even more pathetic."


you sent out like 2 suicide attacks. FIDL sent out like 8. you sat there and did nothing while we sieged fidl fiefs. Why would we think you would send any new armies?

"Imagine, installing a smaller clan in a fief just taken from a large aggressive faction in an attempt to keep it from being attacked and taken back when the faction gives no fucks and wants it back at all costs? That would be horrid. "

In strat 2 NE sold/gave a fief to the Mercs that we would have taken.. and we had a long NAP with the mercs so we could do exactly nothing about it. it does indeed suck.



Holy shit i did a messy version of a canary post... what have you done to me?!
« Last Edit: June 15, 2013, 11:22:33 am by Matey »

Offline Canary

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Re: bringing order to the Chaos
« Reply #123 on: June 15, 2013, 12:04:55 pm »
+4
I love this bit about you not approaching the game from that perspective. I guess you forgot about strat 2 when you became "good dogs" -Vovka of DRZ in order to survive and then turned on your friends with glee in the hopes of acquiring more internet lands; especially since it looked like you and DRZ would wipe us the fuck out pretty easy seeing as we had just expended all of our troops on the hosp castle.

I will admit that I have in the past been concerned with being wiped out. In strat 2 I was much more adamantly playing into the diplomatic rigor of strategus, and we had made official allies with Druzhina and felt slighted by BRD - we broke a NAP to follow them into a war against you. It hadn't to do with winning, but for being denied what we felt we were promised and adhering to an agreement we held above another. It was not about gain.

I will say this now, too, because it still seems to be a troubling incident: It was not meant to be personal, but it was anyway. I'm sorry about it.

Bullshit. Kesh might go hunting for mercs and let people know we have room for them.. but he isnt going to get people to sign up on your side to eat slots and then have them switch last minute. Also, Kesh was complaining to me about how a bunch of people who were signed up for us all dropped last minute to join your side... but at least he didnt make up shit about it being part of some scumbag plan you had to screw us out of mercs.

I wasn't saying he had them sign for us to begin with, but I am fine dropping it as a rumor. I will confirm, however, that TimTehEnchanter_AoW and RoR_Dragon and possibly more have unsigned themselves the instant before a battle has begun without saying anything to us. A shame upon them, and a lesson upon us about hiring flighty FCC friends. Maybe Kesh's dogged roster-hunting gives our list casualties as a coincidence.

Also:
Although Kesh and FCC will deny it, yes he has encouraged people to sign up and retract at the last minute as well as sign up and leech as a low level. I cannot disclose who told me this because I don't want to call him out. This also applies to the MB faction as well.

I know that 9Finger has said to other MB members that they had a mercenary agreement with FCC and would always remind MB to sign up for FCC in battles. I think MB leaders have said that they don't recall any such merc agreement. (if anyone from FCC wishes to confirm or refute this)

That deal with mercs made it absolutely necessary for us to go on the offensive against a major faction in the hopes of acquiring land. We had a lot of people who had helped us a great deal in that war with the mercs and we wanted very much to be able to give them something in return; as such we planned on giving a large amount of the land we took from NE to those who had helped us previously. And yes we all expected NE to put up a much better fight. I would also like to point out that even before the war with NE was finished we already knew that DRZ was going to be attacking us the second our NAP wore off; granted we didnt expect our best friends (who constantly told us we didnt need any official alliance because we were so close that such things were unnecessary) would also attack us (while constantly reassuring me on steam that they wouldnt do such a thing without at the very least telling us first... while marching troops at us in preparations for a sneak attack)... basically we knew that things were still not going to be easy for us even after NE war was done. The only part of strat 2 that was easy for us was the week or so where we were fighting NE but it was overshadowed by the looming threat of DRZ and turning into another back against the wall situation.

I say the promise of land was worse because we were the ones who felt that the promise that was made to us was not fulfilled.

It seems that you saw farther ahead then we did; we were not aware of Druzhina's intent to attack you until a couple nights before the war were declared. I think the stick that tore the dam loose was when we told them about our discontent with what we felt we were denied receiving. There was, I think, only one instance I recall where I told a lie to you guys about our intentions after we had that whole misunderstanding about receiving another village. It was, I think, the night before any attacks occured, and I said something non-commital about what we were planning, stating that we hadn't planned on fighting you at any point.

you sent out like 2 suicide attacks. FIDL sent out like 8. you sat there and did nothing while we sieged fidl fiefs. Why would we think you would send any new armies?

Because clearly we're bad at the game. And like I said, the prophecy is self-fulfilling. Give our stuff away because you don't expect retaliation and you keep us from having it. I don't think FIDLGB has any interest in retaking what they lost, but I'd hate to see no more battles occur at some of these fiefs.

Looking back on other things we've done, we're also slow-moving when we try to accomplish something. I do not begrudge anyone for penalizing us for this, but don't brag about how we're awful turtles just because we're slow.

Holy shit i did a messy version of a canary post... what have you done to me?!

The old-fashioned Strategus wall of text is back. If I know how these things go, it might stay a while.

Offline Keshian

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Re: bringing order to the Chaos
« Reply #124 on: June 15, 2013, 03:51:47 pm »
-7
Honestly Matey covered most things pretty well, but had to respond to a little of this poor loser silliness.


I wasn't saying he had them sign for us to begin with, but I am fine dropping it as a rumor. I will confirm, however, that TimTehEnchanter_AoW and RoR_Dragon and possibly more have unsigned themselves the instant before a battle has begun without saying anything to us. A shame upon them, and a lesson upon us about hiring flighty FCC friends. Maybe Kesh's dogged roster-hunting gives our list casualties as a coincidence.


Wow - now we are getting to the rumors and making up crap like Daruvian and Jesus - i really wish we hadn't beaten you down to this level.  No, all i have done is tell people in the strat fight channel  "we are  desperate fro mercs we can't fill this roster - we had 3-4 people drop or switch sides last minute - does anyone know anyone that can sign up - I will definitely hire them" "Also, if you are not hired at this point please type your name in ts and i will hire you"  Both those people were in our strategus battle channel asked to get on our roster, while daruvian applied to our battle and then no showed intentionally (luckily we got it confirmed at the last second that he had told you guys he was heading out and couldn't make the battle but he would be sure to apply for our side before he left (actually even hopped in our ts to make sure we hired him) and we were able to replace him in time)

Also:
I know that 9Finger has said to other MB members that they had a mercenary agreement with FCC and would always remind MB to sign up for FCC in battles. I think MB leaders have said that they don't recall any such merc agreement. (if anyone from FCC wishes to confirm or refute this)


Your joking right?  Have you loooked at any of the battles you have had?  in almost every case you have more mercs from mb than we do (reasonable since you share a ts) and I have been told they follow aldoglaus when it comes to mercing and he favors your side for why, also defense is a LOT more fun for most people, easier to get mercs on castle defense and they have no obligations to sign for our side though I do try to ask first.  Also, 9finger is afk in Alaska isnt' he?


Because clearly we're bad at the game. And like I said, the prophecy is self-fulfilling. Give our stuff away because you don't expect retaliation and you keep us from having it. I don't think FIDLGB has any interest in retaking what they lost, but I'd hate to see no more battles occur at some of these fiefs.

???  We've sold the Fildgb fiefs - but the only fief of yours we have sold is yalibe because I couldn't waste my time sitting there as fief owner waiting for you to attack it when it never would happen (your 1000 man army there actually ran back to dhirim after the battle).  You have yet to atatck tosdhar and we are still in the process of taking emirin and derchios castle.  im still not getting this whole "you sold all our fiefs so of course we cant attack them and take them back because of course we totally would have you know we just took an arrow to the knee and it took longer than expected."  At the rate you play this game, 10 months from now we can expect you to remember to send an army to attack tosdhar.  And no, we dont really expect you to go on the offensive at this point even with havelle_of_frisia dumping troops and gear into emirin.


Looking back on other things we've done, we're also slow-moving when we try to accomplish something. I do not begrudge anyone for penalizing us for this, but don't brag about how we're awful turtles just because we're slow.


10 months - yeahhhh, I would say that's slow on a pretty impressive scale



P.S.  Every fief was sold and when some of them asked to be allies we even encouraged them to go talk to the other small factions as we were already big enough and it was more a matter of chaos not wasting those fiefs and being on our border (we couldn't even handle that many fiefs) than trying to "buy" new allies as you keep trying to put it, but if they had any questions with understanding strategus or ebcoming new fief owners we would be happy to help.  Selling these fiefs serves the dual purpose of getting us more troops and dropping fiefs that would become too many for us to manage - im really happy we were able to find small clans for the vast majority of them instead of selling to larger factions.
« Last Edit: June 15, 2013, 04:13:05 pm by Keshian »
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Offline Rhalzo

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Re: bringing order to the Chaos
« Reply #125 on: June 15, 2013, 04:19:20 pm »
+3
I wasn't saying he had them sign for us to begin with, but I am fine dropping it as a rumor. I will confirm, however, that TimTehEnchanter_AoW and RoR_Dragon and possibly more have unsigned themselves the instant before a battle has begun without saying anything to us. A shame upon them, and a lesson upon us about hiring flighty FCC friends. Maybe Kesh's dogged roster-hunting gives our list casualties as a coincidence.
Wow - now we are getting to the rumors and making up crap like Daruvian and Jesus - i really wish we hadn't beaten you down to this level.  No, all i have done is tell people in the strat fight channel  "we are  desperate fro mercs we can't fill this roster - we had 3-4 people drop or switch sides last minute - does anyone know anyone that can sign up - I will definitely hire them" "Also, if you are not hired at this point please type your name in ts and i will hire you"  Both those people were in our strategus battle channel asked to get on our roster, while daruvian applied to our battle and then no showed intentionally (luckily we got it confirmed at the last second that he had told you guys he was heading out and couldn't make the battle but he would be sure to apply for our side before he left (actually even hopped in our ts to make sure we hired him) and we were able to replace him in time)

I've noticed it a few times in the last battles, especially yesterday. TimTheEnchanter_AoW was in our TeamSpeak during the rollcalls, got onto the roster, was talking about how he wanted to fight, then when the battle started he was on the opposite team. Didn't say anything in chat or in voice about leaving. All Canary is saying is that it's pretty fucking weird for a member of your faction (on Strat) to be on our roster up until minutes before the battle starts, but when it starts the guy is on the other side.


Oh, and to the people that got Burglen and who will be getting Chide - those places suck to defend. My castle has been the only real fun place to defend.

Have a nice Saturday everyone, it looks like it should be nice out there.
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Offline Keshian

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Re: bringing order to the Chaos
« Reply #126 on: June 15, 2013, 04:52:49 pm »
-3

Oh, and to the people that got Burglen and who will be getting Chide - those places suck to defend. My castle has been the only real fun place to defend.


I think they are buying Kelredan Castle as well  :wink: :wink:  I think they will have fun with it.
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Offline GOBBLINKINGREATLEADER

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Re: bringing order to the Chaos
« Reply #127 on: June 15, 2013, 05:09:45 pm »
0
Hey now, I told you that I had to leave an entire 5 minutes before the battle started and was only accepted 7 prior. I would say that is fair warning.

Offline Rhalzo

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Re: bringing order to the Chaos
« Reply #128 on: June 15, 2013, 05:58:06 pm »
+2
I think they are buying Kelredan Castle as well  :wink: :wink:  I think they will have fun with it.

We've had fun with it so far, now they can have their turn. Just not yet, you guys need to spend about 1k more troops first. I have to say that everyone, both sides, have done a great job during these sieges.
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Offline Saxton

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Re: bringing order to the Chaos
« Reply #129 on: June 15, 2013, 06:02:55 pm »
+2
I feel much the same way, but got caught up in the apathy of the wars we had at hand. Favor neither side? Wind up not fighting at all. We tried to seek out unfettered factions that could make for an interesting small war on their own against us, but pickings were slim, and sometimes it's better just to pit yourself against someone you know you won't be able stand up to for long. I've never approached the game from the perspective of trying to "win" any war I wanted to be a part of, either, and if you're only piggybacking on someone else's fight it can be tiresome. If you only lose it can be bad, too, of course. Throwing tickets to the wind for any old attack is not as much fun as it sounds. We've made some hackneyed attacks against random targets during this recent war, and using tickets that way is not a good course for long-term fun. It doesn't lead to a sustained war effort, at least one that isn't totally one-sided. Ideally people go back and forth with attacks and defense, but when the obstacle you're trying to approach is a self-replenishing brick wall, your little rock hammer can only dig in so far. Not to disparage a well-planned defense, but if we can't successfully make an attack without getting shut down in every way possible, we have to stop trying to do so (whether we run out of tickets, lose interest, or get cut off by more active players). We still have yet to put forth a coordinated offensive for this war, but at this point it looks like we might have squandered our opportunity for that.

Scoff if you want, but we're not here begging for help. I wouldn't have had us attack that FCC trader if I wasn't ready to face the likely possibility of getting wiped off the map. We're a faction that has survived being taken off the map before (twice in one strat, mind you), I'm not going to become melodramatic about the outcome of events as a whole when they didn't favor us. It's the details and attitudes that are more fun to nitpick. ;)

I should have phrased it to be more accurate, yes. Your M.O. has been getting the support of numerous small clans by putting them into a situation where they feel as though they have no choice but to be your ally, even when it isn't made official. Granted, giving people things is great, encouraging small clans to exist is wonderful, and you're doing well to make the map more diverse (in color, at least; they are still your friends after all), but you have historically bunched up any small clan you could get your hands on in order to stack the odds in your favor. Here's a tangential point of fact: people such as RoR and AoW who will sign up for our rosters and then leave in the last three minutes before a battle begins and appear on the other side. The rumor I hear is that Kesh will urge people signed up on our side to switch teams. Bad on us for assuming (particularly with the AoWs, being in your faction now and all) that people just wanted in on the fight anyway they could get it and that nobody was actively griefing us.

But I digress... Strat 2 was when you grouped up as many people as possible to take on the Northern Empire. I suppose they were the biggest threat at the time, and nobody realized how much we would wind up overestimating them... but you were certainly not against a wall once that NAP with the Mercs went through, and you gathered so many clans together because of a perceived threat. A perceived threat to rally people to your cause based on promises of land? That is not better than the allegation I made earlier.



Gonna point this out:

You are here making a self-fulfilling prophecy. Instead of encouraging us to fight you in the war you're just being as greedy (philanthropy to other clans aside) about your conquests as you can be, and discouraging us from actively playing anything but defense. It is ironic considering Kesh's vitriol against us for "doing nothing" and sitting stagnant turtling in our fiefs. If you allow no opportunity for attacks, attacks won't be made. If you don't allow transfers out of a fief, gear bugs will render battles shit (blah blah Kesh "we deserve all that gear and gold so transfers are bullshit, attack on the tick"). You guys really know how to kill fun for the people you fight, even if you do generously provide them with war (and other clans with their stuff once you win).

I'm not asking you to fight wars less efficiently, but I am pointing out that the way you assist other clans is not free from the whole of your strategy of stacking the odds in your favor and preventing retaliation of any kind against you. Furthermore, if you did leave room for us to go on the offensive, it could actually benefit you. No fun allowed, I guess.

My faction has been wiped off the map before, and when it happened we didn't beseech anyone to give us a fief (particularly not one taken from someone else in a war) or even sell us one.

It is different with newer clans, though, and quite frankly I would be even more upset with this kind of behavior if we did have the means to retake everything we lost. Imagine, installing a smaller clan in a fief just taken from a large aggressive faction in an attempt to keep it from being attacked and taken back when the faction gives no fucks and wants it back at all costs? That would be horrid.

Overall, in response to this and what Matey's talking, what I am saying is that I'd rather you give us a chance to at least try and make a move so that the area sees more battles at these fiefs. (what will this be, one non-peasant battle at Yalibe the entire strat and as of tomorrow two at Emirin?) At least wait until we are completely wiped out to sell off the fiefs you won from us. That's asking a lot, though, and I know we already blew our better opportunities for offenses, and misused some tickets when we attacked some of the fiefs FCC already owned. It seems like everyone underestimates our willingness to fight back; what about those aforementioned ridiculous attacks we made before seemed to indicate we wouldn't make stupid attacks against stuff we lost? You have an opportunity to defend in fun battles, here, and make us look even more pathetic.

At least wait until we're dead to give out the inheritance.



Wasn't Kesh giving Occitan, Chaos, maybe as far back as KUTT and possibly others shit because of the fiefs they didn't "earn"? (because of having gotten them via start-of-round voting, EU resources, or being given war conquests or whatever...) I seem to recall something like that.

Oh, I see, it's different because they paid for them in cash gold.

Honestly Canary who do you think would read all of this? Kesh
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Offline SucculentHeadCrab

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Re: bringing order to the Chaos
« Reply #130 on: June 15, 2013, 08:20:07 pm »
+12
I really only did it because a girl asked me.

"The Devs only gave us two gifts to entertain ourselves before we die.  The thrill of reinforcing a girl's fief that asks nicely, and the thrill of killing a man that wants to kill you."

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« Last Edit: June 15, 2013, 08:24:05 pm by SucculentHeadCrab »

Offline Keshian

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Re: bringing order to the Chaos
« Reply #131 on: June 15, 2013, 11:35:18 pm »
-7
I really only did it because a girl asked me.

*cough* Boyscout_of_chaos is actually a guy *cough*

Sorry to ruin your internet girl dreams

P.S.  There are no real girls on the internet, don't believe its a girl just because he speaks in an alto - just means his balls haven't dropped yet.
« Last Edit: June 15, 2013, 11:49:01 pm by Keshian »
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Re: bringing order to the Chaos
« Reply #132 on: June 15, 2013, 11:46:09 pm »
+8
the posts in this thread are too damn long...
Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies

Offline Krosis

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Re: bringing order to the Chaos
« Reply #133 on: June 16, 2013, 12:03:39 am »
+2
I really only did it because a girl asked me.

Happened to you too huh? She has a way with words.

Offline GOBBLINKINGREATLEADER

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Re: bringing order to the Chaos
« Reply #134 on: June 16, 2013, 12:05:30 am »
+3
the posts in this thread are too damn long...

Somehow I've convinced myself that it's just best to ignore these posts, and it is really paying off. I feel emancipated.

This is probably what it feels like to have autism and then suddenly become normal.