Solution to HX?

[Necrorave]

I am not one to complain to change something but I feel this would make sense to give Horse-Crossbowmen and Horse-Archers major differences.  (Plus, we all know a HX on any kind of armored horse is just silly)

Do not touch Horse Archer as it is.
Instead..

Since there are two stages to cav when it comes to speed.  I will call these stages "Steady speed" (Slower) and "Couching speed" (Faster)
The difference is not only the ability to couch at the faster speed, but also the animation of your character's stance changes.

I believe that Horse-Crossbowmen should not be able to reload during Couching Speed.  If you wish to add something to compensate, fair enough.  I really believe that this would help though when it comes to balancing the difference between HA and HX.  HX obviously has more damage/accuracy and the ability to hold shots for extended time, and a fairly quick reload to go with it.  I think the need to slow down will give rangers on foot and other cav chances to take advantage of a weakspot.  Let's face it, other then the small reload time a HX does not have a weakness (Unless you spawn without a melee but thats besides the point I am trying to make)  While HA does have rapid fire, it lacks damage without speed bonus and is mostly used to support and harass.

This is just my idea, I have nothing against these classes (I have no room to strongly feel for one side or the other mostly because I have never tried these classes.)
This is just me making an observation and creating a solution.

Let me know what you think.

Edit: Added a missing fact.

[Siberian_Wolf]

I can only agree, make it so HX can only reload while at a trot, not full speed.

[Malaclypse]

Remove horses, bows and crossbows from game IMO.

[Necrorave]

Remove horses, bows and crossbows from game IMO.

Come on now guys.  Be Captain Crunch about this.

[sF_Guardian]

I'd say keep Horsecrossbowing but reduce its effectiveness.
The problem with Horsecrossbowers at the moment is that they arefast, very accurate
and deal a good amounth of damage, these 3 strenghts together cause the problem
with HC we have atm.
I'd say either reduce their accuracy or remove speed bonus for Crossbows while being on a horse.
This would need careful adjusting but certainly improve battle mode.
Imo we shouldn't remove even more variety because that's what the mod is all about.
HX is just a refreshing trollclass and is needed to keep the other cav classesunder control so removing
it would leave w hole which had to be filled with something new.
On the other side halften the amounth of bolts per stack when you spawn on a horse could be a solution.

Imo the "weird" part doesn't count because in cRPG there is so many unrealistic and strange
stuff that hitting HX in particular wouldn't make any sense.

Tried to point out my thoughts in Kulin_Ban's thread, gonna quote em here too.
Might be not straightly on topic but I'm to lazy to write a new text.

[Teeth]

Endlösung

[Necrorave]

Tried to point out my thoughts in Kulin_Ban's thread, gonna quote em here too.
Might be not straightly on topic but I'm to lazy to write a new text.

Only reason I made my own rather than posting in his post was because it just seemed like a QQ post.  (Even though it probably was not)

As to your solutions, they are a bit crippling of the Crossbow itself too.  I do not want to nerf any items or skills.  Just create a mechanic that changes the gameplay for those who choose to play that.  That is how you fix a game in my opinion.  Change the way it is played, not the way items and such inside the game work.  (With some exceptions)

Endlösung

Minus the extermination.

[sF_Guardian]

Think I got your point Necro, one aspect I'd add is to slow down the crossbows reload speed
proportional to the horses speed by quite a substantial amounth.
If being implemented right this would encourage either hybridizing or searching safe zones to operate
because ride-kiting on full speed would ruin your DPM and thus make you ineffective and not much of a help.
Slowing doen the reload from horseback in general is a must have, though imo.

[Necrorave]

Think I got your point Necro, one aspect I'd add is to slow down the crossbows reload speed
proportional to the horses speed by quite a substantial amounth.
If being implemented right this would encourage either hybridizing or searching safe zones to operate
because ride-kiting on full speed would ruin your DPM and thus make you ineffective and not much of a help.
Slowing doen the reload from horseback in general is a must have, though imo.

Something like that would be fairly hard to code and implement correctly.  I feel my solution would be a simple and easy way to change it.  (Course, I am an amateur when it comes to this stuff and I have never looked at M&B/Crpg scripts so I would not know for sure.)

[CrazyCracka420]

I like gurnisson's suggestion better, just increase the reload time compared to if they were reloading on the ground.

I honestly don't think this is a problem that needs a solution, I think people are just bitching to bitch, instead of taking control of their destiny and changing the way they play (so they're not horse xbow bait). 

[Necrorave]

I like gurnisson's suggestion better, just increase the reload time compared to if they were reloading on the ground.

I honestly don't think this is a problem that needs a solution, I think people are just bitching to bitch, instead of taking control of their destiny and changing the way they play (so they're not horse xbow bait).

I have noticed though, the biggest problem is not the fact that they do a ton of damage.  The biggest one is the amount of points they can put in Riding.  They can ride at amazing speeds and turn on a dime no problem, making them a very hard target to hit.  Even if you are aiming for the horse.  I figure if they are forced to slow down to reload it will give people a chance to shoot them.  If the HX plays it safe and runs away first then it gives the infantry time to find a safe spot or prepare for another attack.

Edit: This would also appeal to realism freaks.  It's minor enough were it will not cripple the class, but it will give other classes a weak spot to look for.

Last minute idea:  This would also stop them from following other cav constantly.

[Angellore]

Decreasing reload speed will work in the opposite way you think. It will just make HX more annoying, because HX will longer have ammo. And since you ride on horse anyway, reloading speed isn't that important, you will just ride around without a purpose a bit longer. The only thing this change will affect, will be HA vs HX duels. But even atm high lvl HA should beat high lvl HX, so HX don't need to be nerfed here.

I think decreasing light horses charge messively (it's close to useless now) and setting Light Crossbow as 2 slot weapon was already enough nerf to HX. Yes, HX is pretty easy class to play (same as many others!), but it has a lot of disadvantages, starting from useless melee. Also, half maps aren't cav friendly at all, and without friendly map you can do nothing as HX. I don't see any way this class is OP. Just one hit from Arbalest, Heavy Crossbow, Throwing thing or even Long Bow and HX is dead.

About HA vs HX - well, I admit HA could get slight buff to damage (eg. every Horse Archery skill should give you 3% additional damage when using bow on horse), but apart from that HA is completely fine class - it just requires higher level than HX to play well with it. It's same situation with regular Crossbowman vs regular Archer - Crossbowman is easy to play and don't require high level to be accurate, also does tones of damage even at level 20. Meantime archer need high level to get accuracy (high WPF) and damage (required PD). It makes exping Archer and HA to level 30 a misery, but it's Archer/HA class problem.

[Necrorave]

Decreasing reload speed will work in the opposite way you think. It will just make HX more annoying, because HX will longer have ammo. And since you ride on horse anyway, reloading speed isn't that important, you will just ride around without a purpose a bit longer. The only thing this change will affect, will be HA vs HX duels.

I read this much and stopped.  You don't belong here.

If you honestly think that will be the only thing affected, then you are pretty narrow-minded.

No offense, but seriously.  I am not saying decrease reload speed in the first place.

[CrazyCracka420]

Decent points Angellore, so I guess slower reload speed would be out then (logically), Necro's idea seems pretty valid though (but again, I still think it's a solution looking for a problem rather than an actual problem in game).

Having 10 throwers on a team can be overpowering.  Having 5 melee guys running and playing together (preferably with a mix of melee classes) can be OP.  Anything can be overpowered, annoying, one-sided, etc, under the right circumstances.  That doesn't mean they need to be nerfed.

[Sniger]

Remove horses, bows and crossbows from game IMO.

lol... then it wouldnt be MOUNT & Blade any more