nudge

[Grumbs]

Buffs for shielders? But you can only nudge without a shield.

Also, I just tested it on the duel server and it seems when you nudge, it sheaths your weapon. What's the point of that?

I mean 1 handers who have their shield broken, or when they put it away against axes or if they outnumber someone.

- me all you want. Running in and pressing a button to bypass all the skills in the game is the complete opposite of game depth. Its a shortcut rather than an actual skill. Its really badly implemented too, just run in and press a button and you or team mates get free hits.

Might sound negative, and I do appreciate new additions and time put into improving the game. Just don't agree with this particular direction for the game

[Kafein]

I mean 1 handers who have their shield broken, or when they put it away against axes or if they outnumber someone.

- me all you want. Running in and pressing a button to bypass all the skills in the game is the complete opposite of game depth. Its a shortcut rather than an actual skill. Its really badly implemented too, just run in and press a button and you or team mates get free hits.

Might sound negative, and I do appreciate new additions and time put into improving the game. Just don't agree with this particular direction for the game

You know, attacking with a longer weapon than your enemy is also "running and pressing a button". In this thread you managed to show more ignorance about game mechanics (who doesn't know shielders can kick ? Someone that never played with a shield ?) than actual arguments. Shielders with their low reach and speed are the easiest to nudge. Also they are "the last guys that need a disable", why ? They don't even have nudges right now. The only ones that have them are pseudo-2h with crappy weapons aka 1h no shield.

[rufio]

I was on EU_2 today and I tore shit up as a full plate nudge abusing mace user.

I think nudges are not too OP, people just don't know how to deal with them yet. On siege they will soon be a fucking plague though, on siege 1h no shield does not require a buff at all.

why dous this nudge need to be implemented? why do 1 handers need a buff? is it implemented for the pure 1 hander hipsters? who already have best turnrate ingame? this buffs all xbowers and archers to in melee, and imo its silly op.  handle it? deal with it? only way to do that is have more athletics than the other person. broken as hell this stuff.

[Haboe]

I love the nudge

Seems a bit hard to hit a guy thats being nudged though, anyone noticed? (I use the powernudge a lot, and the "nudged" gets stunned for a full second it seems. Yet rarely anyone is able to hit them.

[Grumbs]

You know, attacking with a longer weapon than your enemy is also "running and pressing a button". In this thread you managed to show more ignorance about game mechanics (who doesn't know shielders can kick ? Someone that never played with a shield ?) than actual arguments. Shielders with their low reach and speed are the easiest to nudge. Also they are "the last guys that need a disable", why ? They don't even have nudges right now. The only ones that have them are pseudo-2h with crappy weapons aka 1h no shield.

Attacking with a long weapon has numerous counters. Blocking, dodging, timing. You can outplay an opponent to beat him. The closest thing to this is like having an unblockable short range swing. You don't outplay anyone with these disables. Players with shields equipped shouldn't have nudges because they already have the best defence in the whole game. They don't need anything extra added to their kit. They have huge forcefields against all attack directions in a large angle infront and defence against ranged. About kicking with a shield, i'm probably thinking turtlers with the shield up (and you could manual block while kicking before).

So you got 1 hand damage buffs across the board recently. Got weight buffs (less weapon stun). Kicking against shielders was made weaker over several patches. Random knockdown while kicking introduced to increase risk (chamber my ass). And now they add some new kick thats only for when shielders lose their shield or put it away? I swear Paul is on a path to make everyone use 1 hand and shield with this game.

Then they will let everyone do a nudge? Battle of the button pressers? It is not skillful to land a nudge

[BlueKnight]

why dous this nudge need to be implemented? why do 1 handers need a buff? is it implemented for the pure 1 hander hipsters? who already have best turnrate ingame? this buffs all xbowers and archers to in melee, and imo its silly op.  handle it? deal with it? only way to do that is have more athletics than the other person. broken as hell this stuff.

Rufio, it's not a direct buff, it's a mechanic which is supposed to increase the variety in game and to make combat more sophisticated. Obviously it gives a small advantage to the class receiving this mechanic but I believe it wasn't meant to balance classes but to make game more enjoyable and as sb said it earlier, some other classes might also get new mechanics which is a great news imho.

Also, after more people start using it, it is going to be abused terribly in the end. I suggested to lower it's significance. I'm afraid in it's current state, nudge will soon be very annoying. Not to mention that left-hand push can stop&stun enemy in the middle of fighting... Should be blockable only with shield and depend on str and gauntlets of attacker and armour of defender. It should work like a punch, interrupting enemy, opening his block and leaving him without any stun. It's just a punch after all...

I was on EU_2 today and I tore shit up as a full plate nudge abusing mace user.

And this is what I'm talking about...

[Kafein]

Attacking with a long weapon has numerous counters. Blocking, dodging, timing.

Blocking is not a counter, dodging can only mean dodging backwards in which case it doesn't give the short weapon any advantage either, timing is a word like giraffe and can help you about as much as a giraffe.

Then they will let everyone do a nudge? Battle of the button pressers? It is not skillful to land a nudge

You can outplay an opponent to beat him. The closest thing to this is like having an unblockable short range swing. You don't outplay anyone with these disables.

You do. Having someone exactly in front of you at facehug range is only possible if your enemy lets you do it. Let people learn to defend against nudges and then we'll see if they are so bad.

Players with shields equipped shouldn't have nudges because they already have the best defence in the whole game. They don't need anything extra added to their kit. They have huge forcefields against all attack directions in a large angle infront and defence against ranged. About kicking with a shield, i'm probably thinking turtlers with the shield up (and you could manual block while kicking before).

So you got 1 hand damage buffs across the board recently. Got weight buffs (less weapon stun). Kicking against shielders was made weaker over several patches. Random knockdown while kicking introduced to increase risk. And now they add some new kick thats only for when shielders lose their shield or put it away? I swear Paul is on a path to make everyone use 1 hand and shield with this game.

The melee blocking angle of shielders is narrower than that of manual blocks. With manual blocks, if your block physically hits the weapon before your body, it is blocked. Shields work by relative positionning. 1h damage buffs were pretty far from across the board. They essentially made 1h weapons that sucked hard suck a little less. Kicking was made stronger because unless you are kicking when you shouldn't you don't need to block when you kick, and the range was increased. The knockdown that you get when you kick is not random at all, it happens because your opponent counterkicked you at the right moment (and that is very difficult to pull off), way to not know what you are talking about.


I'm not per se lobbying pro nudges but you have the worst argumentation ever.

[Grumbs]

Blocking is not a counter,

Not even going to bother.

[San]

Surprisingly, the buffs aren't as clear-cut as you may believe. The 1h slot change also makes it better for hybrid ranged in melee, especially against agi shielders. The kick change made it easier for shielders to kick other shielders. Shielders are by far the easiest to nudge not including tincans. Certain playing styles might find it more difficult.

[Paul]

Actually I'm thinking about an RSP-like system that allows to counter nudges once I made it non-instantaneous and every weapontype has access to it. A bit like chamberkick, it would work in a way that if someone connects a quicknudge while the other does a shove anim, it would punish the quicknudger instead.  Attack+nudge would be punished by quicknudge and shove by attack+nudge. Oh well, still thinking about it but it might give a way to counter when one can anticipate the opponents move.

[Idzo]

Nice buff for swashbucklers.

Lets see how long does it take before it get's aboosed

[Jarlek]

There's one reason I love nudges and don't mind them being powerful: Nudging is an offensive playstyle that works very well against high STR backpedalers that kicks every time you get close. Nudging is the counter to the lamest melee playstyle.

I'd rather have W-key hero nudge spammers than W-key hero kick spammers.

[Grumbs]

Actually I'm thinking about an RSP-like system that allows to counter nudges once I made it non-instantaneous and every weapontype has access to it. A bit like chamberkick, it would work in a way that if someone connects a quicknudge while the other does a shove anim, it would punish the quicknudger instead.  Attack+nudge would be punished by quicknudge and shove by attack+nudge. Oh well, still thinking about it but it might give a way to counter when one can anticipate the opponents move.

I'm sure it will be as successful as chamber kick

[BlueKnight]

Actually I'm thinking about an RSP-like system that allows to counter nudges once I made it non-instantaneous and every weapontype has access to it. A bit like chamberkick, it would work in a way that if someone connects a quicknudge while the other does a shove anim, it would punish the quicknudger instead.  Attack+nudge would be punished by quicknudge and shove by attack+nudge. Oh well, still thinking about it but it might give a way to counter when one can anticipate the opponents move.

If you make this "punching" fast, barely anybody will be able to counter it, on the other hand if you make it slow so people can counter it, it might become less useful because it will be too hard to perform safely. You have to be really careful with choice of time-from-v-to-hit. It may not be easy. Also ping matters a lot in those quick-reaction things.

(click to show/hide)

For me it looks a bit like: "If he punches me with his left hand to my lower back and blink with the third eye, then I will counter it by getting a boner and increasing a blood circulation which will lead to the launch of a nuclear missile from my left-hand thumbnail, right into his asshole and blow his brain by dealing x4 damage of 8PD archer with MW hornbow and +2 bodkin arrows!"

I mean it looks like a simple thing that you are trying to complicate a little bit too much, but I appreciate your work and whatever you do, it will most likely a great new feature so keep up the good work.

[Tibe]

Somehow I get the feeling it was specifically made so that 1h would be a more viable duelingweapon vs 2h. In the middle of a battleclusterfuck its not so useful. Being a shieldless 1h on the field with bunch of player beating the shit out of eachother in a small area is like bringing a butterknife to an all-out gunfight. It starts to get useful once the clusterfuckphase of the battle is over and you get more mano a mano action.