I feel that the cost of thrown weapons needs to be reduced. (Comparison)

[AirPhforce]

8k for 4 ammo? Seems a bit strange, and it's damn hard on the wallet for a dedicated thrower, who basically has to use 3 stacks of an 8k weapon minimum.

Let's use blunt one handers as a basis for comparison. The warhammer costs 7550, and deals 31 damage. However, for the not-so-rich, the Iberian Mace costs 4294 and deals 28 damage, 3 less damage, but it also has some extra reach. It's a cheaper alternative and has a plus-side aside from cost, while losing hardly any damage. This trend continues with another knockdown one-handed available for 2300.

What does thrown have? Jarids for 7700, and deal 40 pierce. Ok, that costs more then the warhammer, but you do need more then one equipped if you're a dedicated thrower, so the costs add up quickly. Seeing as most people don't like sinking 24000 into items without counting armor or a shield, lets look at the next cheaper option. 3856 gets you 34 damage and 4 ammo Javelins, but it's still absurdly expensive considering it's still only 4 spears, and a dedicated thrower would still need to equip more then one of them. So what's next? Wardarts, 1200, and only 25 damage.

A simple change is in order, I feel. Here are some reccomendations;

1. No separate upkeep costs for thrown items. If you equip 3 war-darts only one should be able to break. I feel that this quality should be unique to thrown if possible, as asking a guy using two-handers to only carry one two-hander for the sake of upkeep isn't much, but asking a dedicated thrower to only use 4 spears per battle is quite unfair.

2. Lower cost for higher-end throwing items.

Lastly, what I feel would be the optimal fix;

3. Lower cost for mid-tier thrown (Javelins should be closer to 2k each) and higher damage on bottom tier thrown (war darts should be 30 damage, not 25). This would bring the cost/damage ratio more in-line with the other weapon types.

That's all I got. Thanks for reading.

[Leiknir]

It was once said they are that expensive because you can use them in multiple slots.

Well, now with upkeep one should recalculate their cost :/

[Mutant]

im a thrower and of course i completely agree. The upkeep of my heavy throwing axes is ridiculous.

[PhantomZero]

Throwing shit is supposed to be a counter to two-handed and polearms and horses, basically anyone without a shield at close range. People that have been running around with 12 throwing lances was a little ridiculous and forcing someone to wield four javelins to be a dedicated thrower still fits into chadz's 20k limit with 5k left to spend on armor, perfectly fine for a skirmisher.

Sure it may break more often, but it is only one thing that is breaking. Think about the two-hander who not only has to carry a weapon, but a shield or pike as well and the costs balance themselves out compared to someone that is a dedicated thrower.

Edit: Also keep in mind that you can loot equipment off the battlefield after throwing your spears, it isn't like you are helpless when you run out of ammo.

[AirPhforce]

Throwing shit is supposed to be a counter to two-handed and polearms and horses, basically anyone without a shield at close range. People that have been running around with 12 throwing lances was a little ridiculous and forcing someone to wield four javelins to be a dedicated thrower still fits into chadz's 20k limit with 5k left to spend on armor, perfectly fine for a skirmisher.

Sure it may break more often, but it is only one thing that is breaking. Think about the two-hander who not only has to carry a weapon, but a shield or pike as well and the costs balance themselves out compared to someone that is a dedicated thrower.

Listen bud, a 1 handed guy can carry 4k in weapons and be good. A 2 handed guy can carry 6k and be set. A thrown weapon guy can't be good for less then 20k without making a huge damage trade-off and he still only has 12 or 16 shots per round. No other weapon type has to make this kind of trade.

[PhantomZero]

Listen bud, a 1 handed guy can carry 4k in weapons and be good. A 2 handed guy can carry 6k and be set. A thrown weapon guy can't be good for less then 20k without making a huge damage trade-off and he still only has 12 or 16 shots per round. No other weapon type has to make this kind of trade.

Yeah but being at range means you don't need to spend as much on armor as the rest of the frontline infantry bud, don't forget you can just grab a sword off the field and suddenly you have a huge damage-increase with 12 or 16 shots per round. Archers and Crossbowmen can do something similar.

[AirPhforce]

Yeah but being at range means you don't need to spend as much on armor as the rest of the frontline infantry bud, don't forget you can just grab a sword off the field and suddenly you have a huge damage-increase with 12 or 16 shots per round. Archers and Crossbowmen can do something similar.

By that logic, an archer could do the same, so making each stack of arrows cost 8k would be balanced. I mean, they can just pick up a sword off the ground and use it!

[Mutant]

the said thing is we are close range skirmishers so we do need armor so for me its armor(which is just mail so not too expensive), shield and 3 sets of throwing axes. Imagine if i were using heirloomed throwing weapons... wouldnt happen

[PhantomZero]

By that logic, an archer could do the same, so making each stack of arrows cost 8k would be balanced. I mean, they can just pick up a sword off the ground and use it!

Arrows do cut damage now and are much less lethal, keep in mind they also have to buy a bow and are almost useless against 1h and heavy cavalry. Don't complain as a thrower because "Oh no, I ran out of javelins what will I do now! Woe is me!"  that isn't a very good excuse because you aren't really supposed to fill up all four slots with javelins, they are a support weapon to take out heavily armed opponents, stop using them against peasants.

Also, heirloomed weapons use the base cost for repairs I believe, and 5k is a lot to spend on armor.

Edit: Well a cursory search shows people saying that heirloomed weapons do not use the base cost  of the original for repairs, so don't use them all the time maybe?

[AirPhforce]

Arrows do cut damage now and are much less lethal, keep in mind they also have to buy a bow and are almost useless against 1h and heavy cavalry. Don't complain as a thrower because "Oh no, I ran out of javelins what will I do now! Woe is me!" that isn't a very good excuse because you aren't really supposed to fill up all four slots with javelins, they are a support weapon to take out heavily armed opponents, stop using them against peasants.

Also, heirloomed weapons use the base cost for repairs I believe, and 5k is a lot to spend on armor.

Edit: Well a cursory search shows people saying that heirloomed weapons do not use the base cost  of the original for repairs, so don't use them all the time maybe?

So what's a dedicated thrower supposed to do? This topic is ABOUT dedicated throwers who have to have 3 stacks of a thrown weapon, and a shield, and NOT for the guys in plate with a two-hander, pole-arm, shield, and jarids for fun.

[PhantomZero]

So what's a dedicated thrower supposed to do? This topic is ABOUT dedicated throwers who have to have 3 stacks of a thrown weapon, and a shield, and NOT for the guys in plate with a two-hander, pole-arm, shield, and jarids for fun.

If you must be a dedicated thrower on the cheap, use wardarts. You get 7 of them with 25 PIERCE damage, a potential  175 points of damage for one stack and 525 if you carry around 3 bags of them. Compared to only 408 using 3 bags of Javelins at 136 per bag .
 
I would agree that an increase in the amount of javelins in a bag could be increased from 4 to 6 but I really don't think you need to play with the costs.

[Surol]

nothing but things that upset me in every forum...

yep use darts even though they are laughed at even in native for being a waste of slot since it takes longer to kill somone with them then for a guy to run up and cut your head off.

[Kophka]

It's really not that bad on paper. Here's a good skirmisher load out -

(click to show/hide)

Military Cleaver - 4350
Norman shield - 3226
2x Javelins - 7712

total - 15288.
That's just on Mid Tier weapons. Throw in another 7000 or so for mid tier armor (mail, 30ish helmet, splinted greaves), and compare it to other builds gear.

Like I said, not bad on paper. But then start thinking about those 8 shots you spend almost 8k on. Medium Xbow+steel bolts for same price does more 2x the damage, with 2x the ammo. Now remember that throwings accuracy is rather poor compared to the other ranged options as well. And remember that throwing weapons now fly like frisbees made of lead, with a shot that people have time to eat something before side stepping. Worth almost 8k? Most likely not, just something that needs to be finetuned a bit more before it's all said and done.

[PhantomZero]

nothing but things that upset me in every forum...

yep use darts even though they are laughed at even in native for being a waste of slot since it takes longer to kill somone with them then for a guy to run up and cut your head off.

Why are you alone? Why isn't there someone helping stop a guy from running up and cutting your head off?

You guys can give me all the troll points or whatever you want, but you might as well just download Americas Army so you can become an Army of One™

How many kills would you guys personally like to have per round or for that matter at the end of the map?

[Surol]

i would like to not have 0 kills every fight due to a cav running my unarmored char down.

i would like to look at a skilled player if i can even tell that anymore since they are all in drab pesant gear and think i could give them a good fight before i die.

i would like this mod to be fun like last week

i would like this mod to not be native where everyone is the same.



sorry just upset that the game is not as fun for me as it used to be. now i just run and die like when i first played.