Make nudges blockable?

[Ronin]

Thanks to devs, now there is a unique ability that you can use when using 1h without a shield.

However I believe nudges should be blockable by a shield and right manual block. Well it can still work as if the blocker blocked an attack --- > loses the initiative to fight back but does not become exposed. The defender will still get spammed by punch+hit+punch+hit combos, but will be able to hold himself instead.



My reasonings for this suggestion are:

-Hoplites and shielders will have a hard time fighting with swashbucklers, because of extra weight. Shielders might have a chance to fight back, but there is nothing a hoplite can do once a swashbuckler gets up close to them. Since hoplites have long weapon + shield, they move much more slower compared to 1h with no shield. So this is needed balance-wise.

-It would also be more realistic. There is a difference between punching someone's face and his shield.

[CrazyCracka420]

It is signed, I can only approved.

I think it's enough if a 2h or polearm user blocks in the direction of the nudge to stop it, same with a shield.  I don't think it should be 100% unblockable (like a kick, before you could chamber "block" them with your own kick).   I'm pretty sure you could always chamber a stab with a kick, not sure if you could always chamber a kick with an overhead or stab.

[FRANK_THE_TANK]

I still don't know how this nudging stuff works. I saw it for the first time the other day on the Aus server when I ran at a guy in first person and grouped his face

Do you kick to activate it or do you just do it automatically when you get close enough?

[Ronin]

You press V button.

Read the nudge guide

[Byrdi]

I can only agree. My main is 1h no shield right now and I still find it too good.

Especially with the hold left attack, get close, nudge combination.

[CrazyCracka420]

As far as I can tell, there's no drawback to trying a nudge, that's the only issue I have with it.  You can run around in an enemy group swinging away and pressing nudge every few seconds.

[Tydeus]

I tested new mechanics for nudges yesterday with Urist. Being able to block them, at least in the same manner that you block weapons, defeats their purpose. Instead, a few other things were done to help address nudge balance, like separating upper body stun from lower body stun.

[Paul]

I made it so that the status of the victim(blocking, defending, doing nothing) affects stagger length now. Getting hit while attacking gives the longest stagger, then doing nothing, then defending.

[Haboe]

How are the times? (compared to previous nudge?)
Like, is the attack interrupting nudge now a logner stagger then before, nothing the same, and defending shorter?

Either way this is a nice start to balancing the nudges 

[Paul]

Should be shorter on average than now. I think only getting nudged during an attack will have the same stagger length like now, getting nudged during block/doing nothing will result in a shorter stagger.

[Gravoth_iii]

mmf, need something to break blocks of backpeddaling shielders/hoplites and pikemen. They got kicks to work with and nudge is pretty easily sidestepped away from. The only time i land a nudge is when people walk backwards in a straight line. qq i love nudge too much already :'( <3

[Zlisch_The_Butcher]

I made it so that the status of the victim(blocking, defending, doing nothing) affects stagger length now. Getting hit while attacking gives the longest stagger, then doing nothing, then defending.

If you've been holding block up with a shield for several seconds it should give a stagger longer than attacking imo, needs to be some way to actually kill steel shield s key heroes who don't swing 'till everyone else have fallen asleep.

[Ronin]

I don't agree with that. If someone is turtling, that means he's trying to defend himself. A good melee player should be able to take advantage of this naturally (unlike you). Because in the end, the offense and initiative matters so much in a duel. You'd want to force your opponent to the defensive stance, so you can put the pressure on him much easier. If he's turtling, that means he gave you the advantage anyway; unless he's trying a different tactic (that's arguable a bit, but still you have the upper hand). Many good 2hers and polers are doing this, so in the end this is their advantage towards shielders when it comes down to melee. The comparably difficult timing of defending with a shield, low reach, low damage and lesser movement speed is the disadvantage of shielders towards other classes.

In the case of a swashbuckler, they can still get spammed by 2handers and polers; because of the short range. But now since they have better stats than a shielder and are now moving much faster without the weight penalty of the shield; they have other advantages as well as nudges. The advantage of swashbuckler is, they have the same reach and damage; but better mobility and stats compared to shielders. Without the difficult timing of the shield, they should be able to take the initiative against them. Against 2hers and polers, well they have nudges now. So nudge is not really needed against a shielder, but more needed against 2her and polers (mostly because of their S key and kick tactics).

Enjoy your -1 zlisch.

[Tydeus]

I don't agree with that. If someone is turtling, that means he's trying to defend himself. A good melee player should be able to take advantage of this naturally (unlike you). Because in the end, the offense and initiative matters so much in a duel. You'd want to force your opponent to the defensive stance, so you can put the pressure on him much easier. If he's turtling, that means he gave you the advantage anyway; unless he's trying a different tactic (that's arguable a bit, but still you have the upper hand).

This sounds like you're describing the real world, not crpg. Unfortunately for quite some time now, defensive play styles (particularly in duels, although not exclusively) have been superior. Now that everyone can block, offensive play styles aren't nearly as rewarding. Hell, you don't even see as many complaints about spammers as you used to. It exists, sure, especially with the recent short 2h weapon buff, but it's to a much lesser extent than what it was a few years ago.

[Ronin]

By offensive playstyle I mainly meant long feint chains not spam (but I know it's also a part of offensive playstyle). Because basically:

spam -> feint
feint -> block&attack
Block&attack -> spam

Of course this is not %100 true, but it is generally correct from what I've seen. This is also the reason why many people choose to spam and only use block if they see their opponent is actually preparing for an attack. If you try to defend (block) too much, people will know that you are more of a defensive player and will perform long feint combos (right and thrust attack feint combo with 2h for example) which is harder to block (for timing or directional blocking). Even if you are a very good manual blocker, such long feint combos are also stamina consuming. It will tire you throughout the duel and will most likely result of your death in the end, mainly because of your exhaustion. This is the punishment you get for playing too much defensively.

However if you try using kicks, nudges, chambers (riposte thing) or even spamming; you will be able to gain the upper hand if you do it right. That's why playing defensive or offensive can give you limited capabilities, but if you master them both and perform both at the same duel; you will be the better dueller. Thus you need to know how to defend yourself but you need to know how to keep the initiative as well. That's what I meant to be honest. I don't know if I'm entirely true or not (I'm talking mainly about the warband mechanics than crpg mechanics, because the change of kicks changes a lot in the flow of combat).