Nudge lolol TL;DR

[Kato]

1h without shield is easy mode, because of superior animations (2h and pole animations can anybody block for hours, 1h not so much).
People who cant kick reliably are pretty much dead meat for 1 handers.

Nudge is cool, but if that "transfer through people" feature/bug when you got free strike from back wont be fixed, its just too strong.

[Legs]

Also I don't see why same mechanic couldn't be used with 2h weapons. Believe or not but it's not that hard to hold 2h sword in 1 hand for a while  Maybe some 2h weapons like great maul and other "heavy duty" stuff should be restricted but I don't see any reason why 2h swords shouldn't use this feature, especially after adjusting it's power to the normal level.

THIS.

Nudge should be available for the 1h/2h swords (bastard swords, long sword, katana).

Some options for its implementation would be to only make it available during the 'idle' when you're not blocking or attacking since you're only holding the sword with one hand at that point, or to change the alternate mode for these weapons to 1h and make nudges available only when using 1h mode.

Historically there were a lot of advantages to being able to use these swords with one hand like being able to grab your opponent's weapon or punch(!) with your free hand when in the bind. The strength of these weapons was their versatility and imo that's underrepresented in cRPG.

[rustyspoon]

I see you just summarised all 2h weapons by bringing 2 out of 3 (forgot miaodao) best spamming weapons.

Right swing of NCS is still longer than Longsword's swings. Anyway I don't know about percentage of usage 2hs in NA but EU usually uses longer/slower 2hs. Longsword and bastard sword are great, I hate fighting against them.

And the left swing and overhead is shorter than the longsword's swings. And it's slower, does less damage and costs 50% more. The greatswords may be slower, but they are also longer, do more damage and can weapon stun.

The nudge may be fast, but it has a VERY short range. You basically have to facehug. Facehugging puts you at greater risk for kicks and hiltslashes. It's a fun little tool to have, but mostly only useful in 1v1 situations anyway. Still, I think the knockdown should be removed.

[Tydeus]

Other weapon types will be getting nudges, but they won't be the ones 1h no shield has right now. These nudges require animating (which I'm in the middle of doing). It's important to note that the current nudges will be getting a nerf so to speak. The effects won't be instant as they are now. Unfortunately, this couldn't be done without recoding nudges.

[Grumbs]

Why not have no nudges? Seems kind of pointless and more of a funny gimmick. We have too many disabling type effects as it is

[Tydeus]

Why not have no nudges? Seems kind of pointless and more of a funny gimmick. We have too many disabling type effects as it is

Melee combat is stale and largely benefits turtles/defensive playstyles. Now a days, just about anyone can block indefinitely if they really make the attempt. Holds are incredibly strong and allow you to hold your swing for ages, forcing an opponent to be slowed down by holding a block until one of your allies can get into position to strike. An interrupt is clearly beneficial to the overall advancement of the mod, and was the most requested feature by the community. It's a new mechanic and it is going to take time for people to adjust to it and figure out what changes need to be made to their playstyle.

[Grumbs]

Bit of a stretch to say its the most requested feature. It was a poll for "more depth to combat" and its debatable whether it adds depth. I think it dumbs down combat if you can press a button to disable someone, especially with it being easy to land and on a short cooldown.

I think its a general buff to shielders too for when their shield breaks, or if they put it away against shield breakers. Adding nudge to everyone will just be like having 2 types of kicks, and one is probably too much anyway imo

If blocking is too easy then why not nerf shields? Hold right mouse to block any direction with a huge force field is my idea of dumbed down blocking. Encourage people to use manual blocking weapons. If 1 hand without shield is not balance then buff the weapons but increase the penalty while using a shield.

Just seems like a lame way to beat people who can block effectively. Especially if all classes end up getting it.

It is a cool gimmick for now, but still in the future I don't envisage it adding real depth to combat

[Panos]

everyone has respeced into 1h W/O   

[Mala]

...
If blocking is too easy then why not nerf shields? Hold right mouse to block any direction with a huge force field is my idea of dumbed down blocking. ...

Well, you have to face your opponent, otherwise they have a chance to hit you trough the shield.

[Kafein]

- Moves of 1h without shield are harder to follow than moves of 1h with shield.

Why exactly ?

- 1h are faster than 2h

No they aren't. With a 2h you can do early hits that will glance with 1h weapons. From the time of release, such swings hit faster.

And what are the benefits of 2h and 1h+ shield over 1h no shield?

2h:
- some weapons are longer than 1h and outrange cav
- deals more damage than 1h
- crushthrough weapons
- better animations (stab and right swing)
- hiltslashing and early hits
- heavier (blockstun)


1h+shield:
- blocks projectiles
- blocks multiple attacks in the same time but can't block peripherally like shieldless blocks
- blocks couch

I don't see your point of 1h no shield being so much worse it needs additional animation.

+stahp the derail you really asked for it

I see you just summarised all 2h weapons by bringing 2 out of 3 (forgot miaodao) best spamming weapons.

Right swing of NCS is still longer than Longsword's swings. Anyway I don't know about percentage of usage 2hs in NA but EU usually uses longer/slower 2hs. Longsword and bastard sword are great, I hate fighting against them.

Also note that I am not seeking for 2h buff so I don't really know your point now.

Then bring the "best spamming 1h" for comparison. Also a NCS right swing is slow, easy to chamber and still shorter than a longsword thrust. Additionally the difference in length with a longsword right or left swing is so small it comes down to footwork.

If blocking is too easy then why not nerf shields?

That's like, the opposite of a logical conclusion. Blocking is too easy and that makes shields less useful than what they were intended to be. Nerfing shields would just continue to unbalance things in the same direction as time already does.

Just seems like a lame way to beat people who can block effectively.

Like kicks, spam, chamberblocks and blockstun ?


Those nudges may be op right now, but given that you have to facehug, landing it isn't that easy and defending against it doesn't sound too hard, at least in duels. Maybe something has to be done to avoid abusing them in clusterfucks even though I suspect if you can land a nudge on someone in a clusterfuck your team is already winning by a large margin.

[Grumbs]

That's like, the opposite of a logical conclusion. Blocking is too easy and that makes shields less useful than what they were intended to be. Nerfing shields would just continue to unbalance things in the same direction as time already does.

Point is apparently people are too good at manual blocking so they come up with these bs nudges, while at the same time they have these autoblock style shields and do nothing about that. Why should people who are actually practising to get good at blocking penalised while anyone can buy a shield that blocks in a huge angle infront of you up, left, right, down and also blocks ranged? And their initial idea is to give the nudge to the shielder/1 hand class. Its backward. They recently buffed 1 handers across the board and made a bunch 0 slot. So its also a buff for ranged in melee fights.

Tweak shields or introduce anti shield mechanics like stamina for holding it down, or having to time the shield use.

I don't see why people want to nerf people who defend well with manual blocking anyway, its one of the main things that makes the game enjoyable. Anyone being able to run in and press a button on you that has no counter that disables you for a bit is the opposite of depth.

[Gravoth_iii]

The Held-attack nudge is too fast for the potential of it imo, should be riskier.

Nudges definitely needs to stay, they are so much fun. In theory they are like kicks but you can use them while moving, and you can use them for different purposes which makes them soooo much fun to use. Example: I retired yesterday and running around as a peasant with a tiny hammer you cant really do much when multiple people are coming your way, but if you are lucky you can land a defensive nudge and send one back and then flee. Its great.

[Kafein]

Point is apparently people are too good at manual blocking so they come up with these bs nudges, while at the same time they have these autoblock style shields and do nothing about that. Why should people who are actually practising to get good at blocking penalised while anyone can buy a shield that blocks in a huge angle infront of you up, left, right, down and also blocks ranged? And their initial idea is to give the nudge to the shielder/1 hand class. Its backward. They recently buffed 1 handers across the board and made a bunch 0 slot. So its also a buff for ranged in melee fights.

Tweak shields or introduce anti shield mechanics like stamina for holding it down, or having to time the shield use.

I don't see why people want to nerf people who defend well with manual blocking anyway, its one of the main things that makes the game enjoyable. Anyone being able to run in and press a button on you that has no counter that disables you for a bit is the opposite of depth.

So basically your whole point is "1H SHIELD OP D:" and this has really nothing to do with nudges at all.

[BlueKnight]

Why exactly ?
because shielder attacking moves his shield around and as it's large object it's easier to follow current state of fighting, while 1h without shield just moves tiny object around without any significant body-bending (no matter how funny it sounds). Some people thought German GS was faster than Danish GS because of the feeling you get while fighting. German is thiner and that's why big object like danish seemes easier to "track"

No they aren't. With a 2h you can do early hits that will glance with 1h weapons. From the time of release, such swings hit faster.

Those early 2h have to be done from very short range and then 1h in very short range can do his early hits as well. right swing for 1h would be dangerous because most people move properly so they disable some attacks of the 1hander by their movement, forcing enemy's weapon to glance

Then bring the "best spamming 1h" for comparison. Also a NCS right swing is slow, easy to chamber and still shorter than a longsword thrust. Additionally the difference in length with a longsword right or left swing is so small it comes down to footwork.

Liuyedao or whatever is the name of that spammy thing, also I don't see big difference between chambering longsword and NCS rly...

Those nudges may be op right now, but given that you have to facehug, landing it isn't that easy and defending against it doesn't sound too hard, at least in duels. Maybe something has to be done to avoid abusing them in clusterfucks even though I suspect if you can land a nudge on someone in a clusterfuck your team is already winning by a large margin.

Wait for Byzantium to join server with even 5 1h no shield and enjoy the madness. As i mentioned earlier,it was easy as fuck to do that (nudge). People say that oh oh kick will keep your nudges away, the thing is that I want to kill him and if he decides to kick I will just slash him, no big deal but if he doesn't kick and plays safe, I will come closer and nudge that guy.
Nudge is super useful in crowd to eliminate single targets because they are just helpless for a while. It's like if there was a group of people turning off blocks of the enemies...

Also I forgot to say that since they increased the weight of 1hs, stunblocks rarely appear.

Also both classes 1h and 2h have some different but good animations and saying that 2h have their long stab doesn't mean that 1h don't have short, fast stab which is really good if you know how to use it. Same with long swings of 2h and fast leftswing of 1h and long right swing of 1h. Each attack has it's feature and that they are different from other class doesn't mean they are worse

EDIT:
I have forgotten about crush through among benefits of 2h against 1h but I've also forgotten about 1h no shield having more skillpoints available than 1h+shield.

Also people tend to forget that hitslashes which are "so so fast" usually deal lower damage than normal hit. I remember being hit by a guy with 10PS and MW Danish and I lost 10% hp. It is one of the extreme situations of low damage being dealt but usually it's still lower damage. You exaggerate 2hs' ability of hitslashing as 1h are no worse with their left-face-swing and polearms are commonly used to hitslash with right swing GLA, LWA, Bec, other slashing polearms. Those are not only 2h that hitslash

[Mala]

...

Also both classes 1h and 2h have some different but good animations and saying that 2h have their long stab doesn't mean that 1h don't have short, fast stab which is really good if you know how to use it.
...

My "fast" 1h stab is one of the slowest attacks.