Buff Swashbuckling?

[Kafein]

I think you are once again painting a much grimmer picture of swashbuckling than reality. If you really dislike your own class this much, it is indeed time for a respec. My one reason to play a swashbuckler, I was pretty much the only one in EU when I did, is that fighting as a swashbuckler feels great. There is something about the way 1h blocks, the  posture when fighting and the animations that makes it feel so elegant and fun. Dancing around with the good movement speed, leftswinging and overheading people in a clusterfuck is extremely good as a 1h. I remember going on siege for the first time and as a level 28 swashbuckler in money making gear I outperformed any of my other builds. Maybe the weapon stats plead against it, but I think the longsworder/swashbuckler comparison goes beyond stats, I simply love 1h animations. The left swing is extremely overrated and both the overhead (since the turn rate tweak) and right swing are extremely underrated.

I agree on the style part. Naked swashbuckler is probably the most fun I had in cRPG for a very long time. But not because it is very effective or easy to play. I get better scores as a MW longsword strength + armor crutcher without putting any effort into the game. I also think there is something psychological related to perceived weapon weaknesses, especially reach. I find myself naturally much more concentrated on blocking correctly when I have a 1h in my hands, for some reason. With my crutcher alt, I want to kill things fast, I know I can survive tons of hits and outspam a large part of the playerbase and this results in poor play (just like another Pygar, Lange, Mauwits...)


Also I definitely feel a difference in blocking speed with the slowest weapons.

[Tydeus]

Nudges are intriguing in that they open the door for several possibilities. I wonder if Urist can be convinced to take another look at these.

Wasn't too hard to convince Urist and he handled it rather quickly too. Initial testing results are satisfactory as well. Basically the nudges work like what's on rageball for shieldless melee, except only for 1h no shield. Which means they have a lot of utility, but they won't really increase your killing potential. One of the nudges has knockdown against backpeddlers, but if you successfully get the nudge off the nudge animation extends nearly until they stand up. This way you can't really use any of them to get a free hit like you do with kicks.

Highly enjoyable, yet not op. Still needs more testing/tweaking to be sure it should get implemented.

If it does get implemented, make sure to mail Urist a box of McDonalds' Chicken Nuggets, he just loves american fast food.

[Bobthehero]

Where do I sign up to test those nudges?

[rustyspoon]

Where do I sign up to test those nudges?

You can test nudges on me any time, big boy. No need to sign up.

[Tydeus]

Where do I sign up to test those nudges?

As I said, they're just the Rageball nudges. Anyone can join rageball and play around with the nudges there. Rageball isn't battle/siege though, so we're testing on those servers ourselves, first. Unlike most things, where beta servers get patched with this first and then if we like where it's at it gets put on the other servers, this doesn't actually require a server patch(at least not yet). Urist would still have to do a few things for it to be ready though, so just because I said it doesn't require a server patch, doesn't mean other work isn't in need of being done(it's also true that things could change that require a server patch for it.)

I'm just a mere item balancer, I don't do any coding. But there's one thing I can say; ETA: December 2010.

[Bobthehero]

You can test nudges on me any time, big boy. No need to sign up.

Gimme a time and a date my man, and I'll nudge to hell and back

As I said, they're just the Rageball nudges. Anyone can join rageball and play around with the nudges there. Rageball isn't battle/siege though, so we're testing on those servers ourselves, first. Unlike most things, where beta servers get patched with this first and then if we like where it's at it gets put on the other servers, this doesn't actually require a server patch(at least not yet). Urist would still have to do a few things for it to be ready though, so just because I said it doesn't require a server patch, doesn't mean other work isn't in need of being done(it's also true that things could change that require a server patch for it.)

I'm just a mere item balancer, I don't do any coding. But there's one thing I can say; ETA: December 2010.

Misread your thing, this is very interesting, looking forward to December 2010

[Phew]

On a side note, I'd take 1h animations over 2h if I could have identical weapon stats both ways and I believe it's clear most people would as well. 2h thrust is nice, but I'd argue that in all other cases, the 1h animations are (when ignoring weapon stats), easily superior.

What does 1h right swing have over 2h right swing? 2h right swing has the same reach bonus but a MUCH bigger sweetspot.

Back on topic, I say just allow the 1h mode of the bastard weapons to be activated without a shield equipped, except eliminate the damage/speed penalties. Then you can get longsword/BS/HBS stats with 1h animations/proficiency.

[Gurnisson]

What does 1h right swing have over 2h right swing? 2h right swing has the same reach bonus but a MUCH bigger sweetspot.

It's way more deceiving than a 2h right swing. I use it quite a lot with my 1h char and when people think they have the reach to double attack me with a long 2h or polearm they get a right swing to the face.

[Phew]

It's way more deceiving than a 2h right swing. I use it quite a lot with my 1h char and when people think they have the reach to double attack me with a long 2h or polearm they get a right swing to the face.

I like how the best thing anyone can ever say about the 1h thrust and right swing is "they suck so much that you surprise people when you actually land one".

[Gurnisson]

I like how the best thing anyone can ever say about the 1h thrust and right swing is "they suck so much that you surprise people when you actually land one".

That's not what I mean. They underestimate the length of it, and that can be a great weapon when used right. You can still use it well up close and wiggling it is, when done well, probably one of the best ways to get through someone's defense

[Teeth]

What does 1h right swing have over 2h right swing? 2h right swing has the same reach bonus

I'd say 1h right swing has a much bigger reach bonus. Using a 102 length 1h, I dare to play the range game with 120 length 2h because my right swing seems to at least be about similar in reach, excluding the derp 2h stab.

[Phew]

I'd say 1h right swing has a much bigger reach bonus. Using a 102 length 1h, I dare to play the range game with 120 length 2h because my right swing seems to at least be about similar in reach, excluding the derp 2h stab.

Effective reach on 102 length 1h sword, right swing=121cm
Effective reach on 120 length 2h sword, right swing=133cm

If you are outreaching them, it's because your timing is superior, not the animation. This scenario is hypothetical anyway, because every 2h user with a stab option will open with it.

[Teeth]

Effective reach on 102 length 1h sword, right swing=121cm
Effective reach on 120 length 2h sword, right swing=133cm

If you are outreaching them, it's because your timing is superior, not the animation. This scenario is hypothetical anyway, because every 2h user with a stab option will open with it.

First of all. These values have always been complete crap. Second of all, this means that the 1h right swing reach bonus is 19 and the 2h right swing reach bonus is 13, which means 1h right swing has a bigger reach bonus. The scenario is not hypothetical, 2h do not initiate a stab everytime they get out of your reach. They simply do not. 1h right swing is an effective tool against a 2h, because they suck at estimating how long and fast it is. Which greatly depends on your movement and angle, by the way.

[Kafein]

Against fast 2h you won't land that right swing. I had quite a few good 1h players try that against me, it's just too slow.

Part of the reason is does work sometimes is that 2h don't assume you will try that, don't think it will hit them and because usually you are the one moving faster, which lets you buy reach by moving in and out. It's just a generic trick, I "outreach" GS users like that with my longsword.

That's not what I mean. They underestimate the length of it, and that can be a great weapon when used right. You can still use it well up close and wiggling it is, when done well, probably one of the best ways to get through someone's defense

Wiggling swings works even better with polearms ( because they don't have swing animations ).