Sword carried on hip should equal 1 weapon slot

[IG_Saint]

....because you can't manual block......would highly suggest a lot more time in the duel server....

You have clearly never dueled Paul. Best EU manual blocker in c-rpg? Paul imo. You're also vastly underestimating the effectiveness of a 2h vs a 1h.

[Espu]

.. but that you don't like the idea of an archer with 75 wpf in 2h whooping your ass with a short blade when you have 150 wpf in 2h or polearm..

This is all fine and well as long as said weapons take 2 slots. Archer hybrid can go Strong bow + 1 stack of arrows + pretty much any 2h weapon for better melee effectiveness but there needs to be a tradeoff for it.

Pre-patch I whooped most people just fine with my 0PS/1wpf archer + longsword. I thought (and still do) that it was stupid. Doing the same with a 1h requires some more effort, slot system = best thing ever.

[Cup1d]

Archer hybrid can go Strong bow + 1 stack of arrows + pretty much any 2h weapon for better melee effectiveness but there needs to be a tradeoff for it.

But now your char automatically drop melee weapon when trying to pick up arrows. Even if you have zero\slot melee weapon.
Also 15 bodkin arrows in quiver is questionable decision.

I have a 2h specced archer, 60 wpf. Even with the spiked mace now, he is super effective. And I can manual block... a bit.

Sorry Paul, but I think this game for people too, not only for you.

[Keshian]

I have gone 1hander no shielder and did just as well as when I was using longsword, though not as well as miadao or heavy greatsword as 1hers are the fastest weapons in the game when used without a shield.  Its has far more to do with footwork and good manual blocking then what weapon category it is as the bastard swords and the 1hers most used are roughly the same length, speed, and damage.  Now the greatswords, cleavers, nodachi are significantly longer so manual blocking is less necessary, same thing with poleaxes (spamming from out of reach or backpedaling spamming far more accessible).

The whole point is that anyone can do well with any weapon if they know how to fight, so Paul, just because you and others did well with a longsword doesn't make it OP (maybe you are OP), by its very nature the bastardized swords 1h/2h swords are in the same category as many 1hers and not the very large 2hers and polearms that are so decidedly larger that they make sense to be 2 slots.  Having only 1 2handed weapon and then 3 random polearms (maybe more) that are much longer be 1 slot is rather arbitrary and shapes it so that you see archers kiting without a melee weapon because there is no even generic selection like: practice sword, axe, iron mace, bastard sword, katana;   to choose from, by the way all these weapons are 101 length or less other than practice sword which is equivalent to staff, a polearm with 128 length and is 1 slot. 

Its the arbitrariness that makes the game feel less smooth when you see these longer polearms and longer 1hers taking up 1 slot and then the 2handers being singled out for only 1 weapon and it excludes the practice sword, basic axe and 95 length katana, of all things.  The thing is I really am happy with the 2-slot weapon idea, it just feels a little erratic in its implementation when it comes to borderline weapons, please make it smoother with a clear reason.  I was thinking 106 length 1h/2h sword was a good cutoff before swords jump 9 length or more as it makes sense that you wear soething on a hip and run with it in 1 hand for it to be 1 slot, but maybe 101 length bastard sword is a good cutoff and at the very least including the cheapest 3 2hers similar to polearms to at least offer some diversity.  Thank you.

[Keshian]

A good example today using a longsword but with melee garb (mameluke mail and helmet).  I got repeatedly one-shotted by a heavy german poleaxe, while it would take me 3-5 hits to kill most people with my longsword (6 powerstrike 4IF).  These weapons are nowhere near the same category as 1 is significnatly longer, gets block stun, polearm stun (dont know why that was never removed), and does 25% more cut damage.  Now imagine most archers wearing light garb getting one-shotted by almost everything and then being told the longsword is OP when surrounded by people with 124 length swords and 140+ length polearms that can all 1 shot you, while you can only 3-5 shot them.  Yet those 2 weapons are somehow categorized the same even though many logswords ahve far more in common with 1hers than with the monstrosities that make up msot of the 2-slot items.

[Espu]

You are straying away from the topic. Whether high-tier polearms should be 3 slots is another discussion. It's a good topic and slot usage will no doubt be revised, but let's try to tackle issues one at a time.

On topic: I don't see your point. If the bastard swords are just as good as 1-handers and you do equally well with both, why do you want them made 1-slot so much?

[IG_Saint]

You are straying away from the topic. Whether high-tier polearms should be 3 slots is another discussion. It's a good topic and slot usage will no doubt be revised, but let's try to tackle issues one at a time.

On topic: I don't see your point. If the bastard swords are just as good as 1-handers and you do equally well with both, why do you want them made 1-slot so much?

To give archers with 2h wpf more choices. Which is already going to be handled:

Longsword, katana, bastard sword are too powerful for the 1 slot status. We'll hybridize more 1h weapons to increase the 1slot 2h selection though, so 2h specced archers have a bit bigger selection. And it was not a quick decision. We thought quite alot about this.

I still think keshian is vastly underestimating the power of the hand and a half swords compared to 1hs. There's a reason you don't see any pure 1hs without a shield. Whereas the hand and a half swords are all perfectly good weapons. Bastard sword is at the lower range of these weapons and could be a candidate for a 1 slot 2h, but there first needs to be a bigger selection of 1 slot 2hs, so that the bastard sword doesn't become the go to weapon for every archer/xbowman.

[Keshian]

To give archers with 2h wpf more choices. Which is already going to be handled:

I still think keshian is vastly underestimating the power of the hand and a half swords compared to 1hs. There's a reason you don't see any pure 1hs without a shield. Whereas the hand and a half swords are all perfectly good weapons. Bastard sword is at the lower range of these weapons and could be a candidate for a 1 slot 2h, but there first needs to be a bigger selection of 1 slot 2hs, so that the bastard sword doesn't become the go to weapon for every archer/xbowman.

At least 4 of my clan mates regularly or only fight with one hander no shield, i've done several generations as a 1her no shield.  Its nowhere near as difficult as people say if you are aan average or better manual blocker because the weapons are very very fast and also the one handed overhead is so similar to the one handed right swing that many people misss their blocks on your swings, you face hug people more and its very effective, maybe because we north americans depend less on lolstabs may be the reason you underestimate 1hers and their shorter range.  Many 1handers on north american servers (that are good) only duel without their shield and often put away their shield once ranged is not an issue.  Shields are a slow crutch, but thats off-topic, they really are not that different from the basic 2handers. 

The ones that are different are the greatswords class which are all 120+ range which is quite significant.  To be honest ideally I think bastard sword, katana, practice sword, axe, and maybe add a couple more 1h/2h hybrids for diversities sake would really go a long way to adding diversity to xbow/throwers/archers/polearmers/1hers that hybrid with 2handers.  If you need to nerf bastard sword, go ahead, just make the heavy bastard what the current bastard is, since it really the ehavy bastard is just the longsword with 1 less length right now.  Its just silly that the smallest 2handed sword that you sheath on your hip and run with 1 hand is not 1 slot, while half a dozen 1hers are longer weapons and are 1 slot.

[IG_Saint]

At least 4 of my clan mates regularly or only fight with one hander no shield, i've done several generations as a 1her no shield.

So do I, just because me and your clan mates can do it doesn't mean everyone can.

Its nowhere near as difficult as people say if you are aan average or better manual blocker because the weapons are very very fast and also the one handed overhead is so similar to the one handed right swing that many people misss their blocks on your swings, you face hug people more and its very effective, maybe because we north americans depend less on lolstabs may be the reason you underestimate 1hers and their shorter range. 

1h no shield is much more difficult than 2h. It's much harder to maintain control over a fight with a 1h, especially if it's not just a duel, but there are multiple fighters involved. That doesn't mean 1hs aren't effective, they are, in the right hands. 2hs are simply much more effective melee weapons and they should be, that's why 1hs can use a shield.

You also need to stop underestimating europeans, I'm a more than capable melee fighter, I don't depend on lolstabs. I haven't even played my 2h characters in ages, I mostly play an archer with 100 1h wpf and a pure polearm character.

Many 1handers on north american servers (that are good) only duel without their shield and often put away their shield once ranged is not an issue.  Shields are a slow crutch, but thats off-topic, they really are not that different from the basic 2handers. 

I do the same on my 1h melee character. Shields are only for ranged and group fighting.

[Glyph]

I have gone 1hander no shielder and did just as well as when I was using longsword, ...

if that's true then this topic isn't nessecairy! close it. it would be to OP and you know it...

[La Makina]

To give archers with 2h wpf more choices. Which is already going to be handled.

But archers already have the choice: they can use all 2H weapons... at the expense of an extra quiver of arrows. It is a trade off, like everybody has to face.

I could imagine the (light) bastard sword being 1 slot if it is a bit nerfed in order to let the Heavy BS still worth 2 slots. In addition, I would suggest the stats of the heavy bastard sword being revised to not be just a weaker version of the longsword. What do you guys think of the following:

Bastard Sword: 34c, 21p, length 101, 1 slot (=cut damage -1),  the BS would have cut damages very similar to the best 1H swords, and the same length as the longest one (the side sword). Note that many 1h swords have better pierce damage so it won't be the best 1 slot weapon.

Heavy Bastard Sword: 37c, 22p, length 105, 2 slots (=cut damage +1), the HBS is heavy, isnt'it? The weight and the cost of the HBS should also be increased then.

Longsword: 36c, 22p, length 107, 2 slots (=range +1), because it is a long sword.

In comparison, the two handed sword is 38 cut for 110 range, so it keeps an edge over the halfswords.

Some players would find a use for the bastard sword while being a step below the other 2Hs. Choosing between the HBS and the longsword would be a matter of taste/style: 1 point of damage vs 2 points of range is a very debatable choice.

[Glyph]

But archers already have the choice: they can use all 2H weapons... at the expense of an extra quiver of arrows. It is a trade off, like everybody has to face.

I could imagine the (light) bastard sword being 1 slot if it is a bit nerfed in order to let the Heavy BS still worth 2 slots. In addition, I would suggest the stats of the heavy bastard sword being revised to not be just a weaker version of the longsword. What do you guys think of the following:

Bastard Sword: 34c, 21p, length 101, 1 slot (=cut and pierce damages -1),  the BS would have cut damages very similar to the best 1H swords, and the same length as the longest one (the side sword). Note that many 1h swords have better pierce damage so it won't be the best 1 slot weapon.

Heavy Bastard Sword: 37c, 22p, length 105, 2 slots (=cut damage +1), the HBS is heavy, isnt'it? The weight and the cost of the HBS should also be increased then.

Longsword: 36c, 22p, length 107, 2 slots (=range +1), because it is a long sword.

In comparison, the two handed sword is 38 cut for 110 range, so it keeps an edge over the halfswords.

Some players would find a use for the bastard sword while being a step below the other 2Hs. Choosing between the HBS and the longsword would be a matter of taste/style: 1 point of damage vs 2 points of range is a very debatable choice.

yeah!
the HBS is just a heavier BS nothin more!
and the longsword isn't called long for nothing!
good point +1

[Cup1d]

But archers already have the choice: they can use all 2H weapons... at the expense of an extra quiver of arrows. It is a trade off, like everybody has to face.

NO. We can't. Because warbow or longbow is 2 slots weapon itself. So, you cant use 2H weapon except spiked mace.
And even with Strongbow\quiver\2H loadout, you cant pick up arrows from field. Because your melee weapon and quiver automatically dropped, when you pick up an arrow of different kind. In my case - any non-masterwork bodkin arrow. So, literally, I can pick up only my own arrows.

[UrLukur]

I'll be happy if design team will introduce some 1h/2h (by x) weapons that have less than 100 range and less than 34 damage (and less than 99 speed).

Something like this would fit well as a 1 slot weapon: (in two handed mode, in 1h with lower cut damage - 30 and speed 99).
Random Sword
Reach 96
Speed 98
Cut 33
Thrust 22

[Keshian]

I'll be happy if design team will introduce some 1h/2h (by x) weapons that have less than 100 range and less than 34 damage (and less than 99 speed).

Something like this would fit well as a 1 slot weapon: (in two handed mode, in 1h with lower cut damage - 30 and speed 99).
Random Sword
Reach 96
Speed 98
Cut 33
Thrust 22

+1 I agree, thats one of the main points of the thread is that there isn't a diversity of choices, which traditionally has been th hallmark of cRPG, that unlike Native you can choose from an assortment of weapons and gear, but if you are a 2h/archer/xbower using a longbow/warbow/sniper/heavy you either ONLY use the spiked mace or you run around kiting with no melee weapon, even polearms/archer/xbow, gets at least 3 possibly more to choose from even though polearms are longer reach.  Im not trying to get OP weapons like greatswords and claymores be useable, just want some diversity of gear rather than 1 generic choice.

Also, I found out the fourth polearm thats 1 slot, military fork of all things, while the basic peasant scythe is 2 slots.