Author Topic: Athletics and character speed comparison  (Read 3032 times)

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Offline Haboe

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Re: Athletics and character speed comparison
« Reply #15 on: May 01, 2013, 04:29:34 pm »
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Wasn't athletics only affecting acceleration? So endspeed on flat terrain was the same with 0 or 10 athletics.

I thought so as well, maybe changed at some point? I know i always walk in front and gain more distance from the ones behind me in stratbattles, though everyone has the same gear there.
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Offline Penitent

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Re: Athletics and character speed comparison
« Reply #16 on: May 01, 2013, 04:36:20 pm »
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Good experiment...but it sounds like you used the 1st 10m to gain speed and then measured the last 20m?

Athletics increases acceleration...so the first 10m will show the biggest difference and the advantage of having athletics.  It's more important than the last 20m, so you should do all tests from a dead stop.

Offline En_Dotter

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Re: Athletics and character speed comparison
« Reply #17 on: May 01, 2013, 06:50:53 pm »
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Post results, i assume you made 10+ runs on each setting and compared them?

We did exactly 10 runs for each setting and used arithmetic average to calculate average top speed. While 10 runs might be a bit low, it takes some time to do this and we are a bit lazy. We might repeat the experiment later on. We did the experiments on HRE_Fallen_Training server on a map with marked distances. Total distance marked is 90m with markers on every 10m including starting position. We did 30m runs but measured 20m. We just wanted to test the max speed difference.

We might do acceleration tests tonight. If not tonight then maybe tomorrow and if we dont do them then expect them after the weekend.
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Offline Penitent

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Re: Athletics and character speed comparison
« Reply #18 on: May 01, 2013, 07:05:41 pm »
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as far as I know, athletics does NOT affect top speed.  All characters have the same top speed regardless of weight.  The weight means it takes you longer to get to top speed.

This is my understanding anyways!

Offline Phew

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Re: Athletics and character speed comparison
« Reply #19 on: May 01, 2013, 07:17:39 pm »
+2
as far as I know, athletics does NOT affect top speed.  All characters have the same top speed regardless of weight.  The weight means it takes you longer to get to top speed.

This is my understanding anyways!

No, agility and athletics both increase top speed:
http://forum.meleegaming.com/beginner%27s-help-and-guides/running-in-crpg/?PHPSESSID=7o0cbpbnlu3hb85lk0mjuio252

Offline Penitent

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Re: Athletics and character speed comparison
« Reply #20 on: May 01, 2013, 07:30:37 pm »
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Offline Teeth

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Re: Athletics and character speed comparison
« Reply #21 on: May 01, 2013, 11:19:11 pm »
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We did different agi points cus of this assumption: If u dont have athletics you would convert it to attributes, and lets say its agi. This isnt about hybrid builds, but dedicated archer build.
Good point you made about acceleration. We will do experiments about acceleration then. We will do 10m run to check the acceleration.

We will assume the following:
Starting speed=0
Max speed is achieved after 10m run and will be equal to average speed of the previous experiment.
Acceleration=(Max speed)/(time to reach 10m mark)

While this might not be 100% realistic we need to make some way of controlling the conditions. If you have a better idea of setting up the experiment please write down your idea.
Why do you say max speed is achieved after 10m? I thought max speed happened after a set time interval since you last blocked, sidestepped, etc, about 3 seconds in my experience. Which means these 3 seconds can result in different distances. Thinking about it there is not really a proper way to test acceleration or other important effects of athlethics. Your current test will tell you something, but actual conclusions are hard to draw from it, but it is probably as good as it gets.

Another interesting part of movement which can be easily tested, would be the movement speed without actually reaching top speed. This is the type of movement which archers use to strafe and shoot and dodge cav. Maybe you could do the same test as before but without allowing the character to reach top speed by constantly drawing a bow or something. This way you can determine whether athlethics significantly improves the 'after action' run speed.

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Re: Athletics and character speed comparison
« Reply #22 on: May 01, 2013, 11:37:56 pm »
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how do you know that u ran 30 meters? :O
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Offline En_Dotter

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Re: Athletics and character speed comparison
« Reply #23 on: May 02, 2013, 12:43:48 am »
+1
Why do you say max speed is achieved after 10m? I thought max speed happened after a set time interval since you last blocked, sidestepped, etc, about 3 seconds in my experience. Which means these 3 seconds can result in different distances. Thinking about it there is not really a proper way to test acceleration or other important effects of athlethics. Your current test will tell you something, but actual conclusions are hard to draw from it, but it is probably as good as it gets.

Another interesting part of movement which can be easily tested, would be the movement speed without actually reaching top speed. This is the type of movement which archers use to strafe and shoot and dodge cav. Maybe you could do the same test as before but without allowing the character to reach top speed by constantly drawing a bow or something. This way you can determine whether athlethics significantly improves the 'after action' run speed.

We abandoned 10 meter run. We did a 5m run. So we shouldnt really reach the top speed (buuut). Only problem is we did the forward movement. We are going to do strafe movement tomorrow most probably.
Here are the results and setups. Note that we didnt use error in the final result (i dont think its rly much needed) so u wont see y=f(x)±f(z), but only y=f(x)

SETUP
Archer1 (agi/ath)=24/8
Archer2 (agi/ath)=27/0
Distance (s)= 5m
Time measurement (t): stopwatch that measures minimum of 0.1s
10 runs per test
Acceleration (a)= 2s/t²
1st test: Total weight (m)=9.7kg (armor effective weight)
2nd test: m=9.7kg+32.7kg (armor effective weight 9.7kg, mw hornbow 2.7kg, 3x mw bodkin arrows 10kg each), weapon sheeted
3rd test: m=9.7kg +32.7kg (same as above), weapon unsheeted

RESULTS
TEST 1

t1=1.41s
a1=5.03m/s²
t2=1.63s
a2=3.76m/s²

TEST 2

t1=1.52s
a1=4.32m/s²
t2=1.63s
a2=3.09m/s²

TEST 3

t1=1.62s
a1=3.81m/s²
t2=1.87s
a2=2.86m/s²

DISCUSSION
Those results suggest that you actually reach max speed quite faster than 3s we have read on some other threads. Now we have 2 different results. It would be quite nice if someone could do those tests independently to confirm which results are valid. According to our results you reach max speed at around 1s run time. If our results are correct that means that high athletics characters can reach top speed before they reach 5m distance. That could make our results slightly off, because the acceleration might be slightly higher than we calculated. For the sake of this experiment we will assume our results are correct.
If you look at acceleration comparison it seems quite large, but dont forget that archers dont run 5 meters to dodge cavalry. By looking comparing our experience fighting the cavalry we concluded that average dodging distance done by archers is approx 2.5m (we didnt do statistical tests but rather used observation and experience and measured it on the map).
With given acceleration values and distance of 2.5m we got the following results that are not looking so well in favor of athletics skill (weight and weapon sheet/unsheet conditions are the same ones we used for measuring acceleration):

Time to dodge in case 1:
t1=1.00s
t2=1.15s
Δt=0.15s=150ms

Time to doge in case 2:
t1=1.08s
t2=1.27s
Δt=0.19s=190ms

Time to dodge in case 3:
t1=1.15s
t2=1.32s
Δt=0.17s=170ms

CONCLUSION
Acceleration is much greater than we assumed so far. Characters need ~1s to reach max speed. There is a great difference in acceleration values between those two builds but the time acceleration takes place is rather short which is shown in the theoretical forward run escape from cavalry. Most common gear archer would have in strategus is bow, 2 quivers and a melee weapon (or no melee), or bow and 3 quivers. Since we decided to go extreme we are not sure that 170ms would count much considering horse speed. Our theoretical escape mechanism isnt used much in the game since most archers either strafe or jump in order to doge, or both of those actions. This experiment is done only to show how this may or may not influence dodging capabilities if someone would just run in a straight line. The most notable benefit from high athletics build would belong to players with higher pings. If they already have 100 ping and need additional 170ms to move to a desired location it could be really helpful, but for players with so called good pings we doubt it would mean a lot.
We still need to check at least 3 more situations (1. strafe movement; 2. forward run with jump; 3. strafe with jump) before we can be brave enough to say whether athletics is really useful for archers or something that can be neglected in favor of attributes or some other skill. 


EDIT: For all those that still dont understand how we got exact distances here is the explanation. There are props in the editor that have actual dimensions in meters (for example: 10m chain, 5m chain, 2m chain, etc). Now a fun fact: Did you know that our characters are 2m high?
« Last Edit: May 02, 2013, 03:32:26 pm by En_Dotter »
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Offline Thomek

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Re: Athletics and character speed comparison
« Reply #24 on: May 02, 2013, 12:51:23 am »
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May I suggest you use video in stead of stopwatch to measure all this? You will need a stable quick software I guess.. Zoom in max and go far away to film it.

Then you can just put the footage on a timeline with overlays to see the speed differences. You should be able to calculate acceleration quite accurately too.

Check also if strength has any effect..
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Offline BlindGuy

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Re: Athletics and character speed comparison
« Reply #25 on: May 03, 2013, 01:36:37 pm »
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^^ what Thomek put: STR also affects your speed.
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Re: Athletics and character speed comparison
« Reply #26 on: May 03, 2013, 01:56:26 pm »
+4
STR doesn't affect your speed.

Offline Butan

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Re: Athletics and character speed comparison
« Reply #27 on: May 03, 2013, 02:07:34 pm »
+1
STR doesn't affect your speed.

But I got stronk legs so I kick off ground forcefully and run faster yes ?

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Re: Athletics and character speed comparison
« Reply #28 on: May 03, 2013, 02:08:59 pm »
+1
The ground you walk actually quakes as you pass.

Offline Rumblood

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Re: Athletics and character speed comparison
« Reply #29 on: May 03, 2013, 05:03:32 pm »
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STR doesn't affect your speed.

But does it reduce the weight penalty to movement? If so, it does indirectly while wearing armor/carrying boulder arrows.
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