Rage incoming, you know what it's all about.

[Thomek]

Katana was never OP or overused, so why this final Nerf?

I guess the there is some kind of consesus about it among certain game-balancers that don't like it.. Or perhaps they just wanted to read my rage! :-)

1. Performance and limitations
It has suffered from some perceived speed problem with certain players that like to swing around huge european swords, players that like to walk backwards, spin and thrust, and keep the enemy at a good distance.. The facehugging and different fighting style of katana users might have confused them.

I've played with the Katana only for nearly a year, and it's a weapon that requires you to build your whole character around it. Because of it's short range (shorter than many 1-handers) it requires you to fight within the enemies zone, and thus learn expert blocking. It demands skill and experience, like very few other weapons.

It's only advantage was speed, but not nearly as much as some players propose. I've trained enough with the Ninjas to know it is completely blockable and counterable, even against the most obscene light armor/high agi/high wpf builds.

The thrust is laughable, and so many times I've bumped a thrust only to get slashed in two by a one-hit flamby.. Yes.. in a pure duel you might have to thighten your anus and concentrate a bit when fighting a katana user, but in battle it's a different story. (Where range is king)

2. The cost of "Exoticness" in performance and price.
Is IMO retarded to still maintain. Let's face it boys, cRPG is a multicultural multiverse (yuck!) game, where you can AND PLAYERS ALWAYS WILL try to make the most unique character possible. Forcing a general style on cRPG will kill its soul.

what it should and deserves to be
Is to be similar in power to the other high-end swords. The goal should, in my opinion be that the power of most weapons is more or less equal, but with emphasis on different stats, balancing each other out. As katana is the shortest of the 2-handers it should naturally be the fastest, which also fits well with that it is famous for its great handling.

The Ninjas and the Shogunate have made the katana earn it's place in cRPG history, and burned it's mark into cRPG soul.

Make it what it reflect that, and let it be a serious, usable weapon again.

Thomek

[Teeth]

+1

Katana
difficulty: 9
speed rating: 101
shield width: 95
thrust damage: 16 pierce
swing damage: 35 cut
weapon length: 95
price: 9376         

Bastard Sword
difficulty: 9
speed rating: 99
shield width: 101
thrust damage: 21 pierce
swing damage: 35 cut
weapon length: 101
price: 4012
Secondary Mode

Elite Scimitar
difficulty: 11
speed rating: 99
shield width: 100
thrust damage: 0 pierce
swing damage: 32 cut
weapon length: 100
price: 8116

The katana has a very useless stab, so that makes the katana (2h), only slightly better than a Elite Scimitar. Bastard sword is a better choice completely and you pay half the price. Price/quality balance and Katana/other weapons balance are both way off.We ninjas are pretty much the only clan left with a strict style, but we really have to pay for staying true to this style. This final nerf was completely unneccesary, especially now heirlooms dont increase the quality of the weapon as much.

[Zergmar]

thrust damage: 16 pierce

they could as well just remove it

[Magikarp]

Same thing with Flamberge and various other items.

[_JoG_]

Katana was never OP or overused, so why this final Nerf?

LOL, just LOL.
It looks like someone has very bad memory and does not remember 30 agi 250+ wpf masterwork katana users. OH SHI, he was one of them...

Actually, after the patch the difference between the katana and the rest of the hand-and-a-half swords has deteriorated, since the stab on ALL bastard swords is almost unusable. At least, if I don't want to die because my weapon glances off the medium armor, I would use only three attack directions on my longsword/bastard sword even with my 6 (7 planned) PS. Yes, longsword users have powerful polearm stab, but it's unusable in real battles since switching the grip takes too much time (yes, I know, this was done due to some insta-feint mode, but this rendered change of the grip during the fight almost impossible).

So, don't complain. Katana is faster, but shorter, longsword/bastard swords are slightly longer but slightly slower. Both of them have no stab. That's it.

[Elmetiacos]

Hmm. I've just restarted my main character as a 2h user, armed with a Bastard Sword, while one of my alts, Weeaboo_Kuniko, fights with a Katana. As soon as they get similar levels of ability, I'll be able to note how the two swords perform and whether it's better or worse to sacrifice speed for length and extra hitting power.

[Thomek]

Jog

That was some time ago with lvl40+ katana users. Almost everything was OP back then on a high-level char. (So OP then might not have been so OP, when many players were 40+ with heirloomed weps) True that katana might have approached the limits of netcode for high ping-players, but only a few players had heirloomed katas with pure 2h AGI builds.

[Radix]

oh yeah right, now everything is overnerfed, mainly poor japanese stuff..... this is bullshit, I should start my own whine post on how arblest(sniper xbow) is useless since is only for dedicated xbowmans( do they even exist?), how xbow is out of shotguning due to throwers, how it doesnt stand a chance against archers and now it is not as good in meele as before, in one word, useless. However I just get over it and decided not to spam the damn forum. Instead I believe that chadz knows what he is doing and u all whining about ur beloved weaopns should stop looking trought the glasses of what change it did to YOU but what change it did to the balance. And I dont see the problem anyway?? Katana is faster and have nice cut, the only thing may be the price, however this is becaouse it is Medival mod, and if u want to lok cool and extraordinary u have to pay for it. Katan is like a special item to show off, but not to pwown just because its special, it just loook cool (and is still completly capable weapon anyways)

[Dravic]

Katana:

Was:
requirement 9
spd rtng 102
weapon length 95
swing damage 35, cut
thrust damage 18 pierce

Is:
difficulty: 9
speed rating: 101
shield width: 95
thrust damage: 16 pierce
swing damage: 35 cut
weapon length: 95

***

Should be:

Katana
difficulty: 9
speed rating: 103
shield width: 95
thrust damage: 20 pierce
swing damage: 36 cut
weapon length: 95

Why?

It is underpowered top-tier sword, if compared to others (just examples):

Highland Claymore
difficulty: 16
speed rating: 92
shield width: 120
thrust damage: 22 pierce
swing damage: 43 cut
weapon length: 120
Can't use on horseback
Secondary Mode

Danish Greatsword
difficulty: 15
speed rating: 92
shield width: 124
thrust damage: 24 pierce
swing damage: 40 cut
weapon length: 124
Can't use on horseback
Secondary Mode


Well, generally, we trade a lot of length and dmg for medium amount of spd rtng, if we buy Katana. And it shouldn't be that way, so again, this is how Katana should look:

Katana
difficulty: 9
speed rating: 103
shield width: 95
thrust damage: 23 pierce (23 pierce or remove thrust completly, it is stupid to bounce off during a fight -.-)
swing damage: 36 cut
weapon length: 95

Ofc increase price from 9,376 to 12,376, I think no one will complain.

[Laufknoten]

The thrust is laughable, and so many times I've bumped a thrust only to get slashed in two by a one-hit flamby.. Yes.. in a pure duel you might have to thighten your anus and concentrate a bit when fighting a katana user, but in battle it's a different story. (Where range is king)

There are 1 vs 1 situations in battles! So as a dedicated katana user, you have a huge weaponspeed advantage, you can deal better with 1 vs 1 situations and you are faster on foot, cause katana user are mostly agi builds and wear light armor. You can also use it from horseback and if there are too many f-a-g-chers you can pick up a shield. IMO it's a great weapon, even though I don't use it. The lenght- and the tiny damage-disadvantage is something you have to deal with.


   

[Digglez]

cant really be comparing dmg from a 23inch/60cm long Katana with full 2hers like claymores that are 45+ inches/110cm long

IMO most of the 2h weapons need their speeds lowered by 10-15 pts

[Korgoth]

cant really be comparing dmg from a 23inch/60cm long Katana with full 2hers like claymores that are 45+ inches/110cm long

IMO most of the 2h weapons need their speeds lowered by 10-15 pts

I don't think anyone cares about your opinion anymore ever since your post about Throwing Hammers and Throwing Weapons with Knockdowns.

:/

[Ninja_Khorin]

The lenght- and the tiny damage-disadvantage is something you have to deal with.

Double price(Katana 9700 gold, Bastard 4000-something, can't check now, I'm at work) for a weapon that deals less damage and is shorter than the bastard sword. And the mighty difference in speed according to my testing on the duel server is an average 2-4 swings more per minute.(Bastard was 62-63 per minute, katana was 64-66 swings per minute)

(click to show/hide)

Katana
difficulty: 9
speed rating: 101
shield width: 95
thrust damage: 16 pierce
swing damage: 35 cut
weapon length: 95
Price : 9,736

Compared to:

Bastard Sword:
difficulty: 9
speed rating: 99
shield width: 101
thrust damage: 21 pierce
swing damage: 35 cut
weapon length: 101
Secondary Mode
Price: 4012

Heavy Bastard Sword
difficulty: 10
speed rating: 98
thrust damage: 22 pierce
swing damage: 36 cut
weapon length: 105
Secondary Mode
Price : 5,480

[EponiCo]

IMO most of the 2h weapons need their speeds lowered by 10-15 pts

Yeah, arrows and javelins are flying in slow motion, too, it would only be fair. Bring horse speed to 10, too and we can play medieval Max Payne.

[Banok]

+1

I gave up on my hierloomd katana before patch cause its so crap with a stab which might aswell be removed. And now its even worse, so ninja's should just switch to hafted blade and let the katana RIP

PS: also the fact that its 2 slots even though it is smaller than many 1h's makes it kind of obsolete too.