Cross Bow

[mokuchin]

A lot of player have to give up their  cross bow and light cross bow since the slots of them became 2. I suggest for the fairness, the damage of them should increase a little. If you take look at the market now, count less player want to give up there cross bow and the value of a masterwork cross bow even less than 2 heirloom points!

[Rumblood]

How about no. Would no be good for you?

[Dach]

actually I agree with the OP.

The standard crossbow is useless right now.

What I would do is take the arbalest to sniper level... buff the damage, make it 3 slot, unsheatable. longer reload. heavier weight.

make the heavy crossbow the current arbalest stat... and the crossbow the current heavy crossbow stat.

Btw this is what I hate about most C-RPG item balance change they have done so far... they always forget the look at the big picture when changing stat... they alway fuck up an item that didn't deserve it by making it so bad to comparable item of the same kind.

[Rumblood]

Btw this is what I hate about most C-RPG item balance change they have done so far... they always forget the look at the big picture when changing stat... they alway fuck up an item that didn't deserve it by making it so bad to comparable item of the same kind.

Then nerf the rest of them them to make that one more appealing. But no way in hell does any xbow need a damage buff.

[Torost]

The Crossbow got a +5dmg buff when it became 2slot....

[Dach]

Then nerf the rest of them them to make that one more appealing. But no way in hell does any xbow need a damage buff.

That's won't change anything, most people will still use the most damaging one since they all take 2 slots...

The regular need a usefull purpose... right now it got NONE...

Same for the last horse patch... still no one use the eastern horse...

Everyone that were using the destrier switched to barded warhorse... (except those that already have a +3 destrier)

You pay 2312 gold more for...

+10hp
+7 armor
-1 maneuver
-1 speed
+6 charge

No choice there... barded is clearly the superior choice...

Large warhorse vs Cataphract

you pay 9515 gold more for...

-10 hp
+4 armor
-2 maneuver
+2 charge

It's even worse than the first example above... 

[Byrdi]

I like the fact that crossbows are now for people who are willing to invest into it.

The damage of the crossbows are okay as they are. It was a good thing that the ones that were previously 1 slot got a damage boost to compensate. But it was not really needed.

But I wished that crossbows would become a deadeye / sniper weapon.

By increasing the accuracy (maybe even lowering the reload speed). Crossbows would be used for sniping people at long range and HS at medium/close range.
While bows would then be used for launching a steady stream of arrows at the enemy (as they are now).

I always hoped that crossbows would become the counter to archers. But after trying archery I found that they are just as accurate and do almost as much damage as crossbows. Which means that archer have no disadvantage in a ranged fight vs a crossbowman.

Anyway even though I like playing as crossbower and would root for the class every day; I do not think that they need a damage boost.

[BlindGuy]

 Which means that archer have no disadvantage in a ranged fight vs a crossbowman.

 

Not so Byrdi: While crossbowman must reload in cover, when loaded he DOES have a massive advantage: He can hold his shot ready while he dodges the archers shots, and can release when he wants for exact shot. The archer must base his dodges/movements on his draw and release time. Of course, this is offset by not being able to reload while moving, but you cannot have more accuracy, utility AND dmg, 2 out of 3 in crossbows favour is enough I think.

[Byrdi]

Not so Byrdi: While crossbowman must reload in cover, when loaded he DOES have a massive advantage: He can hold his shot ready while he dodges the archers shots, and can release when he wants for exact shot. The archer must base his dodges/movements on his draw and release time. Of course, this is offset by not being able to reload while moving, but you cannot have more accuracy, utility AND dmg, 2 out of 3 in crossbows favour is enough I think.

Heh, what I am saying is that they should have a disadvantage, because at the moment the best class against archers; are other archers.
I have always found that a bit dumb.

Also, in a crowbower vs archer fight, the archer can shoot multiple times compared to the crossbower. So I am not saying that archer have an advantage. I think the two things rule each other out which means the two classes are equally good at fighting each other.

[Sparvico]

The main point that I agree with in this thread is that, as it stands, the only real advantage that the regular or heavy crossbow have over the arbalest is that they are cheaper. For many people this really isn't an issue. It is mostly new people/poor people that are penalized into using the lesser crossbows.

I don't think the damage should be increased on any of the crossbows, but I do think that it makes no sense for all of the crossbows except one to be 2 slots. It severely limits play-styles, and just plan doesn't make sense. Variety is the only thing that keeps most of the old players playing. Almost everyone gets bored of their class or play-style eventually, and making all the crossbows 2 slots basically means that unless you want to use a one slot polearm (quarter-staff) or a one slot 2-hander (are there even any decent ones?) you have to use a 1-hander secondary. They have effectively removed 2/3 of the melee weapons in the game for eligibility as a crossbowman's melee weapon. This is especially damaging to siege, where having a crossbow to soften up the attackers was very useful to defenders that most of the time lost anyhow.

Make the light crossbow 1 slot, keep the crossbow and heavy crossbow at 2 slots, and make the arbalest 3 slots. That way anyone that uses an arbalest has to be more specialized for it, which is what it feels like the nerf to crossbows was all about. Stopping people from having a super powerful ranged and melee attack at the same time.

[BlindGuy]

@Byrdi

I dont fear archers, and I think I am the best class atm vs them: thrower with a shield. They canot shoot me, cant run from me, cannot kill me in melee cause I have a nice 2 slot shield, 0 slot sword, and 12 darts to stop them from running. Archer is NOT effective vs archer, unless it is against UNAWARE archer, in which case, if we talking UNAWARE archer, its murderer is cav, not other archers. Archers are fucking dons at hitting unaware single targets, surpressing doorways and corridors, breaking formations, and picking off horses, but most long time archers will agree: fighting another archer who is aware that you are targetting him: waste of arrows.

Crossbows currently fit a nice historically accurate slot tbh, imo: Ranged for people too lazy to be archers. Archers IRL takes a lifetime of dedication; ingame it takes points and dmg is affected by wpf so it needs investment. Crossbows IRL: pick it up and shoot it: ingame, same thing, pick it up and shoot it. Sure you can increase your accuracy a bit and lower your reload time and upkeep, but if I grab an arbalest off the floor and duel a dedicated arbalester at close range: dmg is the same, accuracy is the same, fuck, suddenly Im a crossbower. Its a bitch class for lazy ppl who dont want to be commited to being a ranged whore. And for ArtemRus. All hail ArtemRUS

[Berserkadin]

Crossbow should get 9 str req. Well crossbow and heavy xbow got faster reload speed, weigh less and got less str difficulty, so you can make higher agi builds.

Blindguy I'm pretty sure wpf increases accuracy on xbows.

[BlindGuy]

Blindguy I'm pretty sure wpf increases accuracy on xbows.

Sure, but I used to play 100 WPF in archery. 1 WPF in crossbows, all crossbows still more accurate than any bow that actually does dmg with 100 archery wpf. Accuracy is relative: If I can hit a horse at 50 metres, thats good enough. Already ranged is FUCKING RIDICULOUSLY accurate in crpg, if we look at real life: Sure, marksmen in a calm enviroment and noone trying to kill them can make amazing crossbow and archery shots, but thats not warfare. As it is: crossbows still super easy to hit ppl with, super nice dmg, Pierce dmg. Maybe nerf bow accuracy to something realistic and then crossbows will suddenly seem OP again. Everything is relative. As it is, it seems the crossbow-penetrates-shield chance was buffed anyway, in past weeks loads more bolts go thru my shield than before, but maybe thats just my impression.

[Grumpy_Nic]

dont start reality talking, its no good for crpg

[Byrdi]

Blindguy I'm pretty sure wpf increases accuracy on xbows.

It does.

Also there are different levels of being unaware; an archer can be occupied with shooting and there does see the other archer aiming at if from some random direction. But the archer occupied with shooting can still hear a horse sneaking up on him.

Anyway it seemed like we still end up at the same place: You (Grey) do not mind crossbows getting more accurate in return for reload time and I want it.
So if crossbows got more accurate then they could actually be better than archer at shooting unaware archers and a worse at suppressing/killing waves of melee dudes.