English Bill & Corseque

[Toffeegerbil]

I bought the English Bill thinking it was a great choice for a polearm.
I have just seen the corseque. It is cheaper, lighter and has better pierce values.
Can anyone tell me why the Bill is better? Thanks:

English Bill
weapon length: 174
weight: 4
difficulty: 17
speed rating: 89
weapon length: 174
thrust damage: 28 pierce
swing damage: 31 pierce
slots: 2
Can't use on horseback
Can't sheath
Cost: 9886

Corseque
weapon length: 186
weight: 2.5
difficulty: 12
speed rating: 88
weapon length: 186
thrust damage: 31 pierce
swing damage: 21 pierce
slots: 2
Can't use on horseback
Can't sheath
Cost: 8470


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Additionally, what is the best polearm to heirloom? I am going for a 27/12 build using Pikes/ Anti cav and pokey things.

[Sandersson Jankins]

I bought the English Bill thinking it was a great choice for a polearm.
I have just seen the corseque. It is cheaper, lighter and has better pierce values.
Can anyone tell me why the Bill is better? Thanks:

English Bill
weapon length: 174
weight: 4
difficulty: 17
speed rating: 89
weapon length: 174
thrust damage: 28 pierce
swing damage: 31 pierce
slots: 2
Can't use on horseback
Can't sheath
Cost: 9886

Corseque
weapon length: 186
weight: 2.5
difficulty: 12
speed rating: 88
weapon length: 186
thrust damage: 31 pierce
swing damage: 21 pierce
slots: 2
Can't use on horseback
Can't sheath
Cost: 8470


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Additionally, what is the best polearm to heirloom? I am going for a 27/12 build using Pikes/ Anti cav and pokey things.

The increased weight of the english bill causes the overheads to weaponstun people very frequently. Basically, you perform an overhead, the enemy blocks it, and they have a roughly quarter/half second period in which they can't do shit.

In addition, overheads are often better for stabs in a group-fight.

I don't know which is "better", but those are some advantages the bill brings.

[Grumbs]

Use English Bill to look like a badass more than anything else. The overhead for long poles is very unreliable in team fights, and the length and stab is not really good enough compared to other options.

Overhead can be good 2v1 with another stabber, but i'd rather just have better length or stab damage

[Toffeegerbil]

What polearm do you reccomend using?

I always planned on using the pike but after about 5 games I realized it's worthlessly glitchy - it would seem the hitbox is halfway down the pole.

[Grumbs]

Maybe try hoplite to start with if you want. Warpear will possibly reach similar to English bill with a shield (you get +% reach but -% damage), but you can put the shield away to get 4 attack directions. Ashwood pike has a better reach but loses side swings.

If you want 2 directions without shield then I'd go for Long Awlpike personally or one of the other ~185 length ones. The shorter they get the less reason you have to lose 2 attack directions

Long Hafted blade is a nice swinging weapon, and any of the axes can be decent.

I'd just try some out and if you're new to the game, don't expect to rape everyone. Stay with team mates and get cheap hits in when you can, and be super defensive. There is a technique for stabbing, you want to start the attack away from whoever you want to hit, then turn into them, and leave some room between you and the player if you can.

This post is laden with personal opinion btw, don't take is as gospel

[Gurnisson]

Well, the high weight of the bill weapon stuns more frequently, but it does also have a garbage turn-rate because of the combination of high weight and high length. I have one MW, and while it's good in certain situations, you will find better 2d polearms. If you thoroughly enjoy overheads though, the choice will either be the Bill or the Halberd, depending on what you want. Length and damage or turn-rate and shield break.

Also, while Corseque might look the better choice compared to the bill, it's still worse than Spetum and Ranseur, which are both cheaper. I would choose the ranseur. At +3 it's got 189 length, 89 speed, 33 cut overhead and 34 pierce stab. That's nothing to sneeze at.

[Toffeegerbil]

Whats the news on the bec de corbin? 34 pierce swing as standard seems really good

[Grumbs]

Its decent, but with that length of weapon I feel like I might as well have "shield breaker" stat, and high cut can do similar damage to pierce. Pierce will tend to do more minimum damage, especially against well armoured guys. Remember you can pick up cheap weapons on the market, always check there under "regular item" and polearms before buying stuff.

Don't forget repair costs too. For me Long Bardiche is an ideal weapon. Great damage, decent length and cheapish repairs. Bec is good too, I would buy a selection of poles and find what suits you

[Zanze]

Toffee, what kind of polearm do you feel like playing? Stab-focused, overhead-focused, two-handed style? From what I saw of you trying to pike, I will assume for this post that you wanted to focus on stabbing and supporting a team.
Examples
Stab: Pike, Longspear, Battle Fork, Ashwood
Overhead: Long Voulge, Swiss Halberd, English Bill
Two-handed: Bec de Corbin, Long Bardiche, Long Axe

First, I'll say try longspear. If you feel it is still too clunky, move down to a light lance and shield combo(hoplite). Together with a shield, the light lance has a little less reach then a longspear. Failing that, drop to ashwood. Failing that, drop to war spear. The order of dropping down spears is done in order of length. Highest to lowest.

That is if you want to remain a stab focused pole arm user. There are plenty of threads on the individual playstyles out there, A piking guide and a hoplite guide in specific.

Pike- http://forum.meleegaming.com/guides/a-guide-on-using-the-pike/
Hoplite- http://forum.meleegaming.com/guides/the-sword-and-spear-way-hoplites-guide/

[Shaksie]

English Bill is heavier so more polestun etc etc and the swing hurts quite a bit more.
Long Axe is OP, nerf it. Buff most other polearms.

[Malaclypse]

Bill is heavier as others have mentioned + everything associated with that. It's faster, and it has more total damage (swing + stab compared to Corseque). And of course, it's sexy.

Best polearms to heirloom as far as marketplace viability/efficiency are probably currently:

Ashwood Pike
War Spear
Long Spear
Long Axe
Poleaxe

[Teeth]

The overhead for long poles is very unreliable in team fights

What? I always feel like the overhead is the longest attack for polearms, it is incredibly easy to aim due to it cutting straight through the center of your screen, unlike the 2h which is angled a little. I always love using polearm overheads, achieving headhits is so easy.

The English Bill's highest damage attack is the overhead, which does pierce, which means you should mainly use the overhead. The corseque is more of a stabbing focused weapon. The English Bill is unique in that it is an overhead focused long weapon, well the Swiss Halberd as well but fuck 38 cut. With all the other long attacks pretty much being stabs, 2h stabs, hoplites, pikes and longspears, everyone is holding downblock. Which is when you come barging in and deliver repeated 31p blows to the head. Love it.

But, there is not a single weapon that got fucked over by the turn rate tweak as much as the English Bill. Due to its high weight and length it now has the same turning speed as a great maul, pike and longspear. This is really unfair as it didn't deserve it, now the long awlpike would definitely be my two directional of choice.

Also, best four directional polearm that everyone else seems to hate or forget, German fucking Poleaxe. It doesn't look like a sissy french axe, it looks like a mean executioner's axe. Incredibly high damage stab and swings, very fucking fast and long enough to shit on greatswords.

[Grumbs]

I like shorter weapons when it comes to overheads, just because they inevitably get caught on team mates and my attack either damages them or its blocked. Overheads are great in team fights though, so its kind of a gamble. I would rather have a better stab or length with 2 directions, or a shorter weapon if I intend to overhead

[Toffeegerbil]

Toffee, what kind of polearm do you feel like playing? Stab-focused, overhead-focused, two-handed style? From what I saw of you trying to pike, I will assume for this post that you wanted to focus on stabbing and supporting a team.
Examples
Stab: Pike, Longspear, Battle Fork, Ashwood
Overhead: Long Voulge, Swiss Halberd, English Bill
Two-handed: Bec de Corbin, Long Bardiche, Long Axe

Thanks for all the replies.
I originally planned to be stab focussed, getting cheeky pokes in to help people out and to deal with cav.
Once I found the pike to be too glitchy I didn't have a backup.

I'm going to avoid overheads after trying out the lumpy metal club thing and the bill as they seem to slide through opponents without doing any damage unless its dead on centre (also people seem to poke you mid swing).
I have a high str build as it was my intention to poke support instead of having to parry about all day.

I'm liking the long awlpike at the moment but it doesn't seem to be on any of your lists.
I may try the long spear though as I have found with a little bit more range I would connect more hits.


Edit: Thanks for the pike link, was a good read and looking forward to giving it a go again

[Gurnisson]

I'm liking the long awlpike at the moment but it doesn't seem to be on any of your lists.

It's decent, but it's very similar to Corseque, Spetum and Ranseur, and I find all the those better than the lawlpike