Nerfing Horse Xbows or Buff HA

[Macropus]

The most natural way to nerf HX is to make Horse Archery skill not affecting xbows, IMO.

[bruce]

I thought it was more fun in the old days when crossbows were less accurate to begin with with slower flying bolts, did more damage (it was 75p for a light crossbow) and you could have maybe 2 HA skill. You could shoot with so-so accuracy at ranges you could use a lance, but it'd actually kill a lancer first go (that said, he'd also kill you, and firing at ranges above lance range was incredibly inaccurate).

Then they decided horse ranged should be more viable and HA skill became 1/6 agi as it is now, and the long series of archery nerfs made riding horses more popular to begin with (back then, all infantry had a shield except complete masochists).

[Gurnisson]

They could also fix the cone of fire so that xbow bolts vary as widely within the reticule as arrows do. Bows? Arrows go to to the max reticule range from center 50% of the time. Xbows? 80% of the time they go straight down the middle regardless of reticule width. (Perhaps a slight exaggeration, but not much.)

Haha, some butthurt archer, I see. I've played a ton as archer and a ton as xbow. Your little story there is a complete joke, and you know it.

[Tomas]

Its pretty simple really.

HAX Build (7/30)
Can either use Hunting Xbow or Light Xbow
Hunting Xbow = 37 pierce
Light Xbow = 46 pierce

HA Build (15/24)
Can use Short Bow, Bow, Nomad Bow, Tatar Bow or Horn Bow
Short Bow = 37 Cut
Bow = 41 Cut
Nomad Bow = 42 Cut
Tatar Bow = 44 Cut
Horn Bow = 48 Cut

So the Light Xbow does more damage than the horn bow yet costs 2k less and has 8 less difficulty
Whilst the Hunting Xbow does comparable damage to the Tatar Bow (possibly even the Horn Bow once you consider ammo and looms) and costs 2k less with 6 less difficulty.

So either increase xbow difficulties or reduce their damage to be the equivalent of the comparable bows based on difficulty.

[LordRichrich]

Hmm, something to keep in mind. It's important to balance the ranged horse classes against each other. True, xbow till do morer damage, but HA could kill the HX's horse quicker due to fire rate

[Strudog]

Hmm, something to keep in mind. It's important to balance the ranged horse classes against each other. True, xbow till do morer damage, but HA could kill the HX's horse quicker due to fire rate

This not true, it takes a HX to kill destrier and under in 2 bolts where as a HA has to fire 4-5 times

[Tomas]

Rate of fire is only a balancing issue for foot crossbowmen who can't dodge whilst reloading.

HAX can dodge and therefore rate of fire is irrelevant

[Grumpy_Nic]

Dont nerf xbows just because you dont like hx. Maybe make a dmg penalty similar to 2h weapons on horseback. Leave foot xbowers alone 

[CrazyCracka420]

Its pretty simple really.

HAX Build (7/30)
Can either use Hunting Xbow or Light Xbow
Hunting Xbow = 37 pierce
Light Xbow = 46 pierce

HA Build (15/24)
Can use Short Bow, Bow, Nomad Bow, Tatar Bow or Horn Bow
Short Bow = 37 Cut
Bow = 41 Cut
Nomad Bow = 42 Cut
Tatar Bow = 44 Cut
Horn Bow = 48 Cut

Where you getting these damage #'s from?  Seems a lot different on the website...(bow says 20 cut).  If you're suggesting those #'s, I think it's way too high, considering a bodkin will change that 41 cut, to 41p...

[bruce]

Where you getting these damage #'s from?  Seems a lot different on the website...(bow says 20 cut).  If you're suggesting those #'s, I think it's way too high, considering a bodkin will change that 41 cut, to 41p...

PD is 14% damage per level of PD, and bow damage unlike crossbow damage is affected by (effective) wpf. These are native mechanics which as far as I know are the same in CRPG (that said - I haven't been playing for roughly a year).

The numbers check out, roughly, after multiplying with both bonuses.

Note: 41p is not a lot really - if you want to compare with melee weapons you also have to factor 7% per level of PS and the WPF bonus, not the base damage of melee weapons.

[CrazyCracka420]

PD is 14% damage per level of PD, and bow damage unlike crossbow damage is affected by (effective) wpf. These are native mechanics which as far as I know are the same in CRPG (that said - I haven't been playing for roughly a year).

The numbers check out, roughly, after multiplying with both bonuses.

Note: 41p is not a lot really - if you want to compare with melee weapons you also have to factor 7% per level of PS and the WPF bonus, not the base damage of melee weapons.

But everyone has different PS or PD levels, as well as WPF...when talking about weapons, you talk about their base damage

[Tomas]

But everyone has different PS or PD levels, as well as WPF...when talking about weapons, you talk about their base damage

Horse Archers are generally 15/24 at level 30.  Some go 12/27 or 18/21 but most go 15/24 that I know so that's what I used (as stated)

When talking about melee weapons or bows you use base damage, but any comparison against a crossbow needs to be done after PS/PT/PD/wpf is taken into account because crossbows have no damage modifiers and therefore have higher base damage.

[CrazyCracka420]

Horse Archers are generally 15/24 at level 30.  Some go 12/27 or 18/21 but most go 15/24 that I know so that's what I used (as stated)

When talking about melee weapons or bows you use base damage, but any comparison against a crossbow needs to be done after PS/PT/PD/wpf is taken into account because crossbows have no damage modifiers and therefore have higher base damage.

Thanks for clarifying, that makes perfect sense

[Rumblood]

Haha, some butthurt archer, I see. I've played a ton as archer and a ton as xbow. Your little story there is a complete joke, and you know it.

 Take an arbalest with 1 wpf, take a shot. Watch where it goes. Put a dot on your screen there. Now ignore the reticule and enjoy your sniper rifle. Will it vary? Sometimes, but mostly it will go right up the middle. Been there, used them in strat to kill several people at longer range than arrows will fly from a horn bow.
Arrows with 1wpf? Will hit the guy standing next to you.

[Nightingale]

Take an arbalest with 1 wpf, take a shot. Watch where it goes. Put a dot on your screen there. Now ignore the reticule and enjoy your sniper rifle. Will it vary? Sometimes, but mostly it will go right up the middle. Been there, used them in strat to kill several people at longer range than arrows will fly from a horn bow.
Arrows with 1wpf? Will hit the guy standing next to you.

Unfortunately it doesn't work that way, if it did I definitely wouldn't have 170 weapon proficiency.  Sure you can sometimes successfully shotgun people (5-10 ft), but at that point you aren't even using it as intended. Even with 170 weapon proficiency it strays from time to time.