HACKED

[Le_Mikz]

People say archery is OP, but in reality, part of it is due to most archers using the Long Bow!

Long Bow is too good compared to Rus Bow. It is more damaging and more accurate. Rus Bow only has slightly more draw speed.

How do I know? I am using one right now, and have also been exclusively using it pre-buff-patch.

Before the buff, it actually required skill to use, but now it's a CS simulator, headshots all the time with insane damage over distance.

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IMO, in +3 state, keep it's damage(33c), missle speed(42) and weight(4) nerfed, but lower the accuracy to 103.

Most archers switched to Long Bow and rarely anyone uses Rus Bow, which also lost a lot of it's market value.

 Hmm wait.. they nerfed Rus Bow so long bow should be nerfed too then?? =D

[Rumblood]

Why is it that people value more suggestions coming from other classes, than those coming straight from the source?

Well, the suggestion I made was intended for developers, not for biased archers.

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[Little Lord Lollipop]

Long Bow hits hard and is accurate....its also slow as fuck. I tried it and ditched it within 15 minutes. I've always found draw speed to be more beneficial than damage. If the Rus Bow is underpowered compared to the Long Bow why not just give it a small buff? In its current state i would say the Long Bow is fine.

[XyNox]

I may have put too much emphasis on explaining my point of view about current bow balance that I may have missed the point.

So here it it:

If you think the longbow is too good now because the rusbow got (over ?)nerfed, why dont you suggest to rebuff the rusbow to bring it back in line instead of suggesting another nerf for the longbow ?

Otherwise it would just be this:

Hmm wait.. they nerfed Rus Bow so long bow should be nerfed too then?? =D

[Little Lord Lollipop]

The people that say archery OP will continue to say that no matter how many nerfs archery endures.

[Penitent]

This is all I think of when someone is saying archery is OP or should be nerfed:

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[Cup1d]

If you really interested in bows balance, I can recommend you to try how it work with 1-4 tier bows. Then I would like to hear what you can advise in this case.
In comparison you can try to use some lowtier and hightier 2h or Pole weapons, just to check how balance work in other departments.

I think that something is really wrong there.

[Gmnotutoo]

If you really interested in bows balance, I can recommend you to try how it work with 1-4 tier bows. Then I would like to hear what you can advise in this case.
In comparison you can try to use some lowtier and hightier 2h or Pole weapons, just to check how balance work in other departments.

I think that something is really wrong there.

Yeah, there is something wrong. Archery needs to be buffed as a whole, because its nerfed into the ground right now. I know three dedicated archers in the FCC that respec'd out of the class (myself included) after playing it for a very long time. All of us were longbow users which is why I find this thread absolutely hilarious. I don't think I'm ever going back either, so this isn't a personal opinion to benefit myself.

[Rumblood]

I perfectly understand that there is abundance of MW Rus Bows and I do understand that market =/= balance, but why is it that people have loomed so many Long Bows in the first place, while trying to get rid of Rus Bows at the same time?

Again, no understanding of market forces. Rus bow used to be a good barter item as it was superior in every way, in other words, it was 100% of the top tier bow market. Now that the market is at 50/50, it creates a glut of Rus bows and thus there is no reason to loom them because it no longer holds 100% of market demand. On the other hand, as I explained already, almost nobody loomed long bows for the last year except to round out their inventory because they already loomed everything else.The people trying to get rid of the Rus bow are market brokers looking to move into less glutted and therefore more lucrative areas. You see very few people trying to do a Rus for Long bow trade. Archers don't ditch their loomed bows as they know the flavor changes on a dev whim.

[Rumblood]

And for the second time you fail to answer as to WHY, all of a sudden, people decided to loom the Long Bow if both bows are so balanced?

Why would they loom a bow they already have and of which there is a glut on the market? They loom a bow that previously wasn't worth the time and effort to loom and you can't buy because there is not enough to support the demand due to its weakness for well over a year, i.e, the long bow.

Again, quit trying to use market data to determine whether an item is too powerful. Use actual weapon data. The difference between the bows has already been more than adequately explained to you. Flat out, you are wrong and continuing with these red herrings isn't going to suddenly make you right.

[Umbra]

Why would they loom a bow they already have and of which there is a glut on the market? They loom a bow that previously wasn't worth the time and effort to loom and you can't buy because there is not enough to support the demand due to its weakness for well over a year, i.e, the long bow.

Again, quit trying to use market data to determine whether an item is too powerful. Use actual weapon data. The difference between the bows has already been more than adequately explained to you. Flat out, you are wrong and continuing with these red herrings isn't going to suddenly make you right.

The irony is killing me, my sides, ah!

[Rumblood]

The irony is killing me, my sides, ah!

First post. Your pal then repeated over and over and over that the market and loom was the data that showed he was correct. Not only did I shut down his complaint about stats, I also shut down his market and loom theory. You don't know irony.

6 draw speed isn't slight, it is significant.

Try a longbow vs rus bow duel and see who wins if you don't believe me.

Squeals of a cornered rat. Also of a rat that's been going trough the same old corridors in the labyrinth, over and over again.

YOU are the one that is stuck on "market data", because you use it to avoid, for the third time, an answer to a simple question: If both bows are so well balanced, WHY did so many Rus Bow owners go trough the trouble of looming long bow 3 times? It makes no sense to, all of a sudden, ditch an allegedly equally balanced MW weapon in favor of another allegedly equally balanced +0 weapon that will inevitably cost you a lot trough looming.

I just can't make it any more clear for you. If you get to answer that one, you can try these too:

Why is it that I see Long Bow used all the time in practice, while I catch a glimpse of Rus Bow user every now and than? (I AM EURO, BTW)

Why did long term hardcore Rus Bow users (in EU: ROBINHOOD, shokogushi and some others) permanently switched to Long Bow?

Let me answer it: Because it is A BETTER BOW.

Fucking delusional. You were told UP FRONT what the difference was between the bows, and then kept demanding an answer to your market sales and heirloom question. YES, half the people would switch from Rus to Long bow when 99% of them previously used the Rus bow and would have preferred to use the long bow for various reasons but it was an empirically INFERIOR bow. Now that they are equally good bows, people will be naturally moving to from the Rus to the Long bow because there was almost nobody using the long bow to switch now to the Rus.

You are simply going to say anything you can to "win" your argument. Which is exactly what I was pointing out with the "cute" gif.

Why is it that people value more suggestions coming from other classes, than those coming straight from the source?

Here you try to establish your authority as an archer to discredit any other class from being able to give credible input.

Well, the suggestion I made was intended for developers, not for biased archers.

Here you didn't like what what someone who is an archer had to say so you dismiss "biased archers". Sorry pal, you don't get it both ways.

But keep fooling yourself into thinking you know what you are talking about. Just don't expect anyone else to drink your Kool-Aid.

[XyNox]

Jeez Kulin this is getting silly now.

People use longbows because IT IS A VIABLE CHOICE NOW.

When only few people were using a longbow before and everyone else was using a rusbow, what do you expect to see on the marketplace ? People trading their non existing longbows for rusbows ??

When a new item becomes "available" due to rebalance, of course people try it out/switch. All the people who always wanted to play with a longbow but simply couldnt do so because the stats didnt allow for it will now be happy to give away their overused rusbow to get what they wanted to play in the first place. Aside, there is this whole romance thing around the longbow and english archery culture, just like so many people play with greatswords because of this romanticized picture of the movie 2h knights in peoples heads.

You say you understand that marketplace =/= balance, yet you dont and still you use it as your main argument to justify your personal opinion, which is the longbow being OP, to hold true on an universal level.

I may remind you that I was on the server when you were talking about the longbow being OP, where you claimed that it is SO EASY to headshot people with that bow, although you didnt even manage to get a KD of 1:1 in most matches, nor did you get an awful lot of score. You just got like 2 headshots out of what ? 50 shots ? and then you bragged about it being horribly easy for the whole game, while feeding the bottom of the scoreboard for the next map.

To make this post constructive in the end, answer me this Kulin:

1. What makes you so sure that every single person who is trading his rusbow for a longbow is doing it solely because OP'ness and not because they want to try it out / like the style more / are obsessed with the "longbow culture" / are willing to sacrifice speed for damage / etc. ? Have you spoken to all of them individually ?

2. How do you know that archers that do well with a longbow cant do the same with a rusbow, or even better ?

3. Since there are archers, like players of all other classes as well, who have played for many gens and gained many loompoints until now, how can you know that the people who switched to longbow lately didnt already have one MW in their inventory all the time ?

4. How can you call an item OP that you cant get a decent KD nor score with and is in total just not very efficient in your hands ( based on my observations when I saw you playing ) ?

[Vodner]

In the last week, I can count the number of times I've had the majority of my health removed by archers on one hand. The majority of those were headshots I survived. I've been last-hit by archers plenty of times, but only after losing most of my health to other sources.

I don't really feel like any of the bows need further nerfs.

[Torben]

you guys do realize that your barking up each others trees because you have a different opinion about the impact of accuracy... so you have two different playstyles and keep bitching at each other.  yay.

the main point is,  that the heavy lance needs a buff relative to the other lances, haha