Flamberge nerf unnecessary

[Native_ATS]

they really made a cry thread about 2 damg.... its the longest sword in the game, dose a ton of damg, idk whats wrong with it, seems fine to me
longest weapon beside pikes, has 4 diff attacks, highest damg, seems fair in every way

[MadJackMcMad]

*Sigh* When will people learn that realism has nothing to do with balance?

Lets talk about balance then.  Balance in Mount and Blade has always been based in reality.  The choice between axe and sword is your preference for either maximum damage, or versatility (ie speed, reach, and alternate piercing attack).  Here is your balance; trade off in one area for higher standing in another.  What you seem to seek is the flamberge to be superior to everything in every area, which isn't balance.

[Magikarp]

they really made a cry thread about 2 damg.... its the longest sword in the game, dose a ton of damg, idk whats wrong with it, seems fine to me
longest weapon beside pikes, has 4 diff attacks, highest damg, seems fair in every way

It uses polearm animations mostly, only right attack doesn't. Making the magical 152 range be reduced to 130.

Flamberge should be the hardest hitting weapon ingame along with the Great Long Bardiche. Yet the Great Long Axe beats both by mere speed. Plus the latter two have bonus against shield. I don't see any reason atm to choose Flamberge.

[krampe]

Lets talk about balance then.  Balance in Mount and Blade has always been based in reality.  The choice between axe and sword is your preference for either maximum damage, or versatility (ie speed, reach, and alternate piercing attack).  Here is your balance; trade off in one area for higher standing in another.  What you seem to seek is the flamberge to be superior to everything in every area, which isn't balance.

Great let's realism balance now! How much blocking a heavy sword strikes will the wooden pole of your axe withstand, one? two?

/realism

Flamberge nerf is fine, in order with all the other 2h nerfs

[RandomDude]

Great let's realism balance now! How much blocking a heavy sword strikes will the wooden pole of your axe withstand, one? two?

/realism

Flamberge nerf is fine, in order with all the other 2h nerfs

Krampe! You dont know what you've started..... I'll rouse the Brigade into an angry swarm and we'll smash HRE in strategus. YOU JUST WAIT!!!!

I can't see 2 damage making a massive difference either way. On one side I think "if it's -2 damage, why bother" and in another I think "will that really change my playstle?".

I'm more bothered about not being able to use a board shield.

EDIT: Hmm re-reading the thread I guess when you compare flam to other 2h's it does lose more of its appeal. I'll still use it when I play again though. I think.

@Marathon : Although I agree that it's sensible to make builds divisible by 3, not all builds do it because they might have an extra 4 skill points to use.

[Radix]

As somene pointed out before, M&B balance is based on realism as it uses weapon models of real weapons and basing on their weight, lenght and shape the game balance it self. It seems like the major balance issue is regarding nodachi and flamberge and this is propably becaouse they were not  common weapons, rather weapons with ceremonial purpose. Their value in fight was never proved and this is the main problem I think. They just dont match to the realistic balance of the M&B's weapons cose.... they are a bit unrealistic.

[MadJackMcMad]

Great let's realism balance now! How much blocking a heavy sword strikes will the wooden pole of your axe withstand, one? two?

/realism

Well, more than it would take to ruin a sword with strikes from an axe.  It would depend on the manner of the swing and the manner of the block or parry.  Regardless, you offer an example which is not currently implemented in the mechanics of the game.  Realism is desirable, although for it to be balanced it must be implemented in a balanced manner.

[krampe]

...YOU JUST WAIT!!!!

ALL PRAISE TEH FLAMBURGER!!

maybe it would have been more clear this way
"Flamberge nerf is fine, in order with all the other 2h nerfs ..."<- (irony addendum)

My GGS lost 5 pierce and you whine about 2 cut... <-- (no irony) ;D

Well, more than it would take to ruin a sword with strikes from an axe.  It would depend on the manner of the swing and the manner of the block or parry.  Regardless, you offer an example which is not currently implemented in the mechanics of the game.  Realism is desirable, although for it to be balanced it must be implemented in a balanced manner.

BS how about axe vs axe? gogo blocking
It's a game, games are never realistic, go larp

[MouthnHoof]

Flamberge should be the hardest hitting weapon ingame along with the Great Long Bardiche.

Nice statement. Care to explain why it *should*?

BS how about axe vs axe? gogo blocking
It's a game, games are never realistic, go larp

Axe vs. axe will chip the pole and slide. It will take quite a few hits to do enough damage to seriously weaken it especially when it hits a different section each time. In addition two longaxes will not be blocking each other pole against blade. It will be a lot of dodging. Blocks will attempt to either deflect with the head of the axe from long reach or close-in and bind pole on pole.

[Magikarp]

Nice statement. Care to explain why it *should*?

It's the most expensive and big weapon ingame, while being one of the slowest. The only good thing should be the damage and reach. Both weapons used to fulfill these roles, now they can be fulfilled by much faster weapons.

This is just plain wrong.

[MadJackMcMad]

It's a game, games are never realistic, go larp

Very old and very uninformed argument.  All games are realistic on their own level; they all depict archetypes present in our own reality, thus to say games are not at all realistic is false.  You seem to presuppose that realism is an absolute, that it is binary, either there or not.  This is an incorrect assumption. Game elements can have pretensions to realism without outright embracing realism.  Mount and Blade is an example of that.

[krampe]

Very old and very uninformed argument.  All games are realistic on their own level; they all depict archetypes present in our own reality, thus to say games are not at all realistic is false.  You seem to presuppose that realism is an absolute, that it is binary, either there or not.  This is an incorrect assumption. Game elements can have pretensions to realism without outright embracing realism.  Mount and Blade is an example of that.

Old and uninformed? Oh when you say so, i disagree.
Having archetyps presented in our reality? So they are copies. Imagine you copy a picture, there is one REAL one and one copy.
MB is a example for embracing realism? MB playing in a fictional environment - Calradia, inhabitated by characters which have super powers to swing heavy weapons indefinatly completly untouched by injuries (horses too) and can only fight swinging those weapons in four directions?
Following your logic you can say that Super Mario pretense realism too. He's a plumber, we have that in reality.

There is no realism in MB only a fictional copy aka. balance.

P.S. damn you, i had to look up several words you used (and used them again )

[MadJackMcMad]

Old and uninformed? Oh when you say so, i disagree.
Having archetyps presented in our reality? So they are copies. Imagine you copy a picture, there is one REAL one and one copy.
MB is a example for embracing realism? MB playing in a fictional environment - Calradia, inhabitated by characters which have super powers to swing heavy weapons indefinatly completly untouched by injuries (horses too) and can only fight swinging those weapons in four directions?
Following your logic you can say that Super Mario pretense realism too. He's a plumber, we have that in reality.

There is no realism in MB only a fictional copy aka. balance.

P.S. damn you, i had to look up several words you used (and used them again )

Consider Mario, I am less interested in his profession, more interested in the fact he is subject to a natural phenomenon of our world - gravity.  That is an mechanism of realism, ie, a rule which exists in our world which has been applied within a fictional context (you can scoff at this if you wish, it doesn't make it any less true).  Rules like mass and gravity are particularly relevant when addressing which does more damage, a sword or an axe.  The rules dictate an axe.

A fictional context may be fictional, but that does not presuppose it is devoid of reality (as the above example demonstrates).  If there was no reality - no consistency with our world; what we would see would be alien to our eyes, like an entirely new colour.  So while Caladria is fictional, many of its mechanisms are based in reality, and are constructed ingame within the limitations of technology and feasibility.  When I say based, I do not mean constructed of in their entirety.  Axes and swords do not perform precisely as they do in reality, but they do perform like them.  Their performance is based in reality, and limited by desire or feasibility of design.  While you would like to have unlimited attack directions, I don't think we will see that until Microsoft invents the Holo Deck. 

Honestly, I don't see the problem.  A Long Axe has the ability to destroy shields.  A Flamberge has massively longer reach and a powerful penetrative attack.  Their damage is equal.  Whilst I think the Long Axe should be more damaging, as it stands, it is almost balanced.

[Seawied]

I don't think the flamberg was ever really in need of a damage nerf. It had appropriate drawbacks before.

[Magikarp]

Long Axe should do the same damage? You make me laugh so hard.
It's good that people like you aren't developing this game.

Can any admin give any word on this? Perhaps a buff is planned like Greatswords are getting?