21/18 instead of 21/15

[Kirman]

Im playing 1h+shield with 21/15 for a longtime. I want to try something different now. I was thinking about 21/18 with 0 ironflesh but 6 ath. How is it?

1H= Nordic Champion
Shield=Elite Cavalry or Heavy Round

[CrazyCracka420]

I would suggest going 21/18 (no IF) versus 21/15 (max or almost max IF)

    Strength: 21
    Agility: 18
    Hit points: 64

    Converted Skills to Attributes: 8

    Iron Flesh: 4
    Power Strike: 7
    Shield: 4
    Athletics: 6
    Weapon Master: 2

    One Handed: 125

Using this calc: http://sayginsoher.com/merccrpg/calculator/

You could also have 2 IF and 3 WM in your build (giving you 60 hit points versus 56 and 132 WPF versus 148).  I personally prefer offensive skills (WM/WPF) versus defensive (IF/hit points).  But that's my preference.

[[ptx]]

Well, enjoy being killed in 1-2 hits by anything (unless you're wearing very heavy armor)

[Kirman]

42 Head/ 48 Body / 42 Leg armor?

[[ptx]]

Yup, 1-2 hits, easy.

[Zaren]

42 Head/ 48 Body / 42 Leg armor?

I would be a little more optimistic and say 2 or maybe 3 depending on your opponent, BUT it is true that a lack of IF gets you killed fast. The question is, how good are you at not getting hit in all battle situations since with little ironflesh, you need good battle awareness.
Have you considered an agi shielder? those are really fun as well

[Teeth]

1h is one of the classes that needs its wpf least. Going 0 WM is really viable and not slow or low damage at all. Try it if you don't believe me. 0 WM does in fact give you like 113 wpf. You only need 4 shield, 3 if you have a loomed shield. The Heavy Round shield does not break easily even with 3 shield. Provided you don't go turtle around with some axe users and use your shield in a sensible manner.

Go 21/18 with IF,

    Strength: 21
    Agility: 18
    Hit points: 68

    Converted Skills to Attributes: 8

    Power Strike: 7
    Shield: 4
    Athletics: 6
    Weapon Master: 0
    Ironflesh: 6

This is a better build than 6 WM and 0 IF, trust me.

[CrazyCracka420]

These guys are right in that you don't need a lot of WPF to be good with a 1h...I have always had 118/119 1h on my builds and using a 97 speed weapon I seem to do very well and even hit faster than most people I'm fighting against.  So having that extra IF would be nice, but I never have IF in my builds (56 to 60 hit points typically), and using armor that gives me Body: 48 Head: 48: Legs: 58, I seem to stand up pretty well in fights and not get destroyed in 1-2 hits (like people are saying) unless I go up against someone with 8 or 9+ PS.  Granted I try to not take hits by being efficient with my shield, but I think people would recognize when I get dehorsed I'm usually take quite a while to go down (even in a group of 5+ enemies).  Shielders more than anyone can go into a large group of enemies and pick their swings and do a lot of damage without taking a lot of hits.

I'd suggest getting 2 WM and then put 4 into IF (again, I'd rather do more damage than take more damage, not to mention the extra speed and lower upkeep from having more WPF).

[Kirman]

Well i tried all of them a bit with STF. 0 Ironflesh seems a bit weak to me. I like to take damages while dealing some. Shielder means ''Tank'' to me.

Go 21/18 with IF,

    Strength: 21
    Agility: 18
    Hit points: 68

    Converted Skills to Attributes: 8

    Power Strike: 7
    Shield: 4
    Athletics: 6
    Weapon Master: 0
    Ironflesh: 6

This is a better build than 6 WM and 0 IF, trust me.

This one seems better. Its a bit slow but i prefer hold attacks over feints most of the time. 4 Shield is ok aswell i can fight without shield.

Thanks.

[Laufknoten]

If you go weaponmaster than go shielder/hoplite-hybrid, 120 wpf in 1h is enough. Or you put 2-3 into WM and the rest into IF. Most important is that you max PS, ATH and Shield.

@Teeth:
Thats simply not right. 1h is the melee class that needs WPF the most. You can easily play 2h with 80-90 effective wpf as you have a high damage outout anyway. But most 1h weapons have low damage and if you can't even use the weapon at its full potential than you are at a disadvantage.

[Teeth]

If you go weaponmaster than go shielder/hoplite-hybrid, 120 wpf in 1h is enough. Or you put 2-3 into WM and the rest into IF. Most important is that you max PS, ATH and Shield.

@Teeth:
Thats simply not right. 1h is the melee class that needs WPF the most. You can easily play 2h with 80-90 effective wpf as you have a high damage outout anyway. But most 1h weapons have low damage and if you can't even use the weapon at its full potential than you are at a disadvantage.

There is no such thing as using a weapon at its full potential. The only benefits wpf give you in combat are attack speed and damage. Now this amounts to 15% damage and 6.5% attack speed per 100 wpf. Which is not a whole lot, but that is beside the current point. The important thing is that these benefits are percentual. Percentually, every weapon class gets the same benefits from wpf. When looking at these benefits absolutely, it is a difference case. Let's compare a Danish with a Nordic Champion Sword and how much damage and speed they gain from a 100 wpf.

Estimated attack durations are taken from WaltF4's graph in this thread, this is very rough but it's all I got to prove my point: http://forum.meleegaming.com/beginner's-help-and-guides/game-mechanic-megathread!/

Danish
Attack duration: 1.19 - 6.5% = 1.112 (-0.077 s change)
Damage: 41 + 15% = 47.2 (6.2 c change)

NCS
Attack duration: 1.16 - 6.5% = 1.084 (-0.075 s change)
Damage: 32 + 15% = 36.8 (4.2 c change)

The point is that 1h, due to low attack duration and damage, benefits less absolutely from the percentual wpf bonuses than slower, high damage weapons do. Similar, but then the other way around, to the way that 1h benefits more percentually from the absolute damage bonus from heirlooms.

[Moncho]

Data

The point is that 1h, due to low attack duration and damage, benefits less absolutely from the percentual wpf bonuses than slower, high damage weapons do. Similar, but then the other way around, to the way that 1h benefits more percentually from the absolute damage bonus from heirlooms.

That is true, but this lower base damage also means that they need that little extra push not to glance sometimes. It depends on preference imo, I for one hardly ever use IF because getting hit is a failure for a shielder in the first place. It is the shield, not you that should take the hits.

[CrazyCracka420]

I said 5 shield as there's some strong 5 shield requirements out there (huscarl) but I personally prefer only going with 4 and using the knightly heater or elite cav shields. 

I'd still recommend going 2 or 3 WM, once you get to around 120 WPF in 1h then I'd start going IF

And 15% damage increase for every 100 WPF (7.5% per 50WPF is actually very good, that's one more Power Strike basically) but I do not believe that is accurate, as I was under the impression WPF x PowerStrike (minus other variables like enemy armor/health and soak) are what takes your damage into consideration. 

I personally think WPF is important (for both speed and damage as well as reduced upkeep chance), and these are offensive stats rather than hit points, which is defensive.  A good offense (killing the enemy) is sometimes the best defense.

I think it's important enough that it's better than IF, but I use polearm and 1h WPFs so I need max WM, if you're just using one skill, you can easily get by with 2 or 3 WM.  At 3 WM and 4 shield, he could still have 4 IF....I think that's the best of all worlds.

I revised my OP build to what I think you should use.

[Osiris]

Ive always been a fan of 21-15 wif using tankey armour and ncs, without the high armour i would suggest 18-18 or 21-18 over 21-18.

[Penitent]

WPF helps 1h a lot.  I disagree with those that say 0 wpf is ok for 1h.  I have an archer with 6 ps and 50 wpf in 1h, and I have a very tough time against fast, spammy 2h players.

I recommend 120 at the LEAST for wpf.

I recommend 18/18.  It's the best 1h build I say.
Having 21 strength really doesn't benefit you.  7 PS over 6 PS gives you like 1.5 damage extra per hit.  It's not worth it.  Instead, convert those attribute points to skill points and you can take a bunch of IF or Riding or Throwing....AND/OR take 6 WM so you can use a polearm or hunting xbow.  It makes the build much more variable, useful, and less boring!

18/18 all the way!