Author Topic: chadzville - A Strategus Idea Compilation  (Read 3447 times)

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Offline Algarn

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Re: chadzville - A Strategus Idea Compilation
« Reply #30 on: March 09, 2013, 01:12:50 am »
0
I like gathering/crafting system too , but that should be in the MBG "I think"

Offline the real god emperor

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Re: chadzville - A Strategus Idea Compilation
« Reply #31 on: March 09, 2013, 01:40:00 am »
+1
if something like this happens, id play it :D

Offline Smoothrich

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Re: chadzville - A Strategus Idea Compilation
« Reply #32 on: March 09, 2013, 05:33:50 am »
+1
Basically summed up the game in the title, want to go all out on the Farmville aspect of it.  Personally I think by far the strongest element of Strategus is the battles, and the rest of the interface should be as simple and streamlined as possible for enabling clans to wage big battles and wars.  This accomplishes the exact opposite effect.  I do not want to spend time in a Warband mod that isn't big battles on open fields or castles clashing.  That's what the game is, and what Strategus tries to achieve (and did best in Strat 2)
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Offline Joker86

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Re: chadzville - A Strategus Idea Compilation
« Reply #33 on: March 09, 2013, 06:40:41 am »
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I never played Strategus, so the whole matter is difficult for me to judge. I don't even now how the current strategus works, to be honest.

I'd like to ask why and how players engage in battle against each other. I mean: there is nothing to conquer. No fiefs or the like. Or did I misread/overread something?
Joker makes a very good point.
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Offline bagge

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Re: chadzville - A Strategus Idea Compilation
« Reply #34 on: March 09, 2013, 10:02:08 am »
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Very nice Garlic!
I hope you guys get some sort of sticky balls deseases and smell like my armpits, sorry excusese for nolife fucking cunts you are.

Offline Arathian

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Re: chadzville - A Strategus Idea Compilation
« Reply #35 on: March 09, 2013, 10:41:34 am »
+1
I.....don't like it.  At least parts of it. Queue the -1's, but I won't lie :/ Please read my objections.

I mean, it looks good on papper, but it has way too many "best case scenario" mechanics. Maximum guild size is a prime example. What stops the same faction making 10 allied factions to fit all their members in? Also "neutral mayor"? Really? :P If I have ever seen a thing that will devolve into a numbers game, it is this. It isn't even a question of skill, as pressing a button requires none.

Also, "frequent and small battles" is seemingly nice, but what if your rich merchant was attacked by XxXassassinXxX at 4 in the morning? I presume there will be a smaller wait seeing that huge, concetrated, battles will be removed. Having to wait 24 hours for a 3 minute battle seems kind of silly, there is a reason nobody signs up for 100 vs 100 battles. And let's say that the timer is put way down, to 6 hours, what stops me from abusing the night time system to get the battle 12 hours latter so my buddies can come after whomever attacked me?

Also, I don't see how this will be effectively done. If there is no ownership any more then people won't have objectives. You might think "become rich/powerful/prestigious/whatever" but that is not a realistic goal. Out of how many thousands who play c-rpg, maybe 10 will be the top. Right now we have 100's of fiefs, so at least every 20 or so players are able to reach some sort of recognition, through being a good trader or simple owning a fief.

However, I kind of like the economic and strategus leveling up aspect, HOWEVER

That is against the newbies. Let's say that somebody is level 1551515125something. He can make the best weapons and craft the best armors and his goods are worth 1515151252155 gold. With the same effort he would be able to get many times over the gold a newbie can have.

I DID make a suggestion for a semi-leveling up system a while pact using the prestige. Please give it a read.

http://forum.meleegaming.com/strategus-general-discussion/uses-of-renown-(suggestion)/msg647303/#msg647303

The essense of it is that valor becomes a resource that can either be accumulated giving you passive benefits or it can be spend giving you more drastic, but temporary, benefits. That way there will a check that keeps old players from just skyrocketing in power over new ones. Maybe something like that can be given to this system too.
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Offline BASNAK

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Re: chadzville - A Strategus Idea Compilation
« Reply #36 on: March 09, 2013, 12:12:13 pm »
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I.....don't like it.  At least parts of it. Queue the -1's, but I won't lie :/ Please read my objections.

I mean, it looks good on papper, but it has way too many "best case scenario" mechanics. Maximum guild size is a prime example. What stops the same faction making 10 allied factions to fit all their members in? Also "neutral mayor"? Really? :P If I have ever seen a thing that will devolve into a numbers game, it is this. It isn't even a question of skill, as pressing a button requires none.

Also, "frequent and small battles" is seemingly nice, but what if your rich merchant was attacked by XxXassassinXxX at 4 in the morning? I presume there will be a smaller wait seeing that huge, concetrated, battles will be removed. Having to wait 24 hours for a 3 minute battle seems kind of silly, there is a reason nobody signs up for 100 vs 100 battles. And let's say that the timer is put way down, to 6 hours, what stops me from abusing the night time system to get the battle 12 hours latter so my buddies can come after whomever attacked me?

Also, I don't see how this will be effectively done. If there is no ownership any more then people won't have objectives. You might think "become rich/powerful/prestigious/whatever" but that is not a realistic goal. Out of how many thousands who play c-rpg, maybe 10 will be the top. Right now we have 100's of fiefs, so at least every 20 or so players are able to reach some sort of recognition, through being a good trader or simple owning a fief.

However, I kind of like the economic and strategus leveling up aspect, HOWEVER

That is against the newbies. Let's say that somebody is level 1551515125something. He can make the best weapons and craft the best armors and his goods are worth 1515151252155 gold. With the same effort he would be able to get many times over the gold a newbie can have.

I DID make a suggestion for a semi-leveling up system a while pact using the prestige. Please give it a read.

http://forum.meleegaming.com/strategus-general-discussion/uses-of-renown-(suggestion)/msg647303/#msg647303

The essense of it is that valor becomes a resource that can either be accumulated giving you passive benefits or it can be spend giving you more drastic, but temporary, benefits. That way there will a check that keeps old players from just skyrocketing in power over new ones. Maybe something like that can be given to this system too.

The problems you mention are not that hard to counter, I didn't go and design a completely new game I basicly just tried expanding Strategus, and adding some new features. There was no point in going All-In on solving problems. Hence why I said "it is not Finished"
Let me go through some examples of some solutions to problems you listed:

• Just because a faction consist of 50-80 members in Strategus does not mean all of them are active. But the thing with Strategus is everyone can grind troops and do caravan runs. The Tavern system which would require players to go to one Each day/or two, would make inactive players useless. And as also mentioned, transfering between non-faction members and non-allies is no longer possible (Only selling with tax of course, and minimum price for an item could be 50% of base price).

And if people are still just that horny on ruining the game for others by making 10-faction sized clans, extreme measures like, signing up the faction before strat round starts, and be assigned to a random "Strategus World" (Which could be possible considering the smaller size of the world compared to current Strategus map). This would split up factions into different random worlds. There will also not be place for everyone in rosters, which I believe would demotivate people from these sort of things.

• Neutral Mayor? It doesn't actually mean it's going to be a Mayor deciding something, and playing. Politicis is just rather a representation of World changes that will happen if people choose a mayor. Like tax increase, and day of church.

• To not make my compilation larger than it actually is. I left out many ideas like enabling a combined Night time for all players. Which only would allow battles, as an example: 12:00 to 01:00. People will disagree with this saying theyre not able to attend and whatnot, and need night time set to what fits them. I believe that night time should be set to what fits most players in the community, allowing battles to happen during daytime, and not having to set alarm clocks to 04:00 in the morning because someone set a random night time. If you cannot attend you can always hire a friend to lead, and random people to fight for you.

• The point with battles is not to just downsize them. It's to transform them to Clan-Scrim battles which is about a million times more enjoyable, where you can put your own tactics and skill to use. And I'm not sure you read everything I wrote or might have misunderstood. But a 100v100 battle in chadzville would not equal a current 100v100 battle. It would still be more beneficial to join a strat battle even if it lasts 3 minutes than staying in normal cRPG servers.

• There is no point in Strategus and never was. From what I've seen (EU Strat). It's all about holding a fief, grinding so much Troops, Gold and equipment that you would cause an omaha beach to whomever would attack you. And when you have any spare troops go out and have a battle or two. And if you have more brainless zombie grinders than your enemy, You can attack more!

And by the looks of it, people have become so afraid of getting wiped, or loosing things, that people will only attack when they are 100% sure they can hold out for weeks-months in a counter attack. No one takes any risks anymore. And as a small faction leader, I have to stick around to larger factions, which always stick around to Block alliances. If I would attack a larger faction, It does not matter how many Battles I would win, they would still generate far more troops than me and compensate for all their losses quickly. I don't know about NA Strategus. But EU has become a unenjoyable disaster.

Having no fiefs makes battles encouraged as you do not have to worry about indestructible walls and oversized garrisons. You can just attack to ruin your enemies economy or what ever your enemy is doing. It is also easier to attack since you can do it anywhere. Observe your enemies routines, find a good timing and location to attack and Voila there you go. No more fear.

• What makes you think there would be no soft cap/hard cap level-wise, like there is in cRPG? I thought the representation of the compilation would be complained about making high end gear too expensive and hard to get. Maybe I didn't represent that well enough.

• And what I mean by involving skill more to Strategus is: You now face similar numbers to your enemies, you need to protect your members carefully, plan your attacks, contain a stable economy, use the best tactics in battles etc.

--

That would be my counter-argument. Although I thank you for taking your time reading and posting your thoughts about the compilation. I didn't expect everyone to agree with it or like it :P
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Offline Algarn

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Re: chadzville - A Strategus Idea Compilation
« Reply #37 on: March 09, 2013, 12:21:28 pm »
+1
99% will love it  :)

Offline Knute

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Re: chadzville - A Strategus Idea Compilation
« Reply #38 on: March 09, 2013, 05:21:09 pm »
+1
Nice presentation and I like a lot of the ideas in the OP like strategus specific skills and town maps within the larger one. 

Strategus has come a long way from v1 but I don't think it's 100% the multiplayer campaign game the developers hoped to make but they were probably limited by Warband itself.  Warband might be like an old house with old wiring/plumbing which limits how it can be remodeled, and that could be part of the reason why the developers are focusing on building their own house from the ground up so they won't be limited in what they can do.

I had to do some serious necromancy to find these posts but:

I tried to lobby to TW to add a module system function that would allow me to send a player to another server. I begged em over and over again, actually. It was always declined, for whatever reason. (I guess they didn't like the idea of a fan-made mmorpg, which could indicate that they are working on a MMO game themselves)

Also an april fools joke or maybe experimenting to have a strat campaign interface like this:
(click to show/hide)

------

With current strategus, if there was one last major improvement to make the game more playable I'd wish it would be an option where players could move battles to a mutually agree on time.  Here was my suggestion:

http://forum.meleegaming.com/strategus-general-discussion/strat-suggestion-attackers-defenders-pick-new-battle-time-within-24-hours/msg669608/#msg669608


Offline Joseph Porta

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Re: chadzville - A Strategus Idea Compilation
« Reply #39 on: March 09, 2013, 06:09:23 pm »
+1
(click to show/hide)

dude, yes!

it seems to me like this would be a far better and more enjoyable game!

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Offline Casimir

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Re: chadzville - A Strategus Idea Compilation
« Reply #40 on: March 10, 2013, 02:32:22 am »
0
Kalam, this topic was moved to general discussion, by chadz i believe. :)
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Offline Bombi93

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Re: chadzville - A Strategus Idea Compilation
« Reply #41 on: March 10, 2013, 11:19:21 am »
0
Startegus battles should be 50v50 and even bigger, thats the point of big wars and large alliances, epic largescaled battles that cant be made/done by few unorganized players or small organized clans...
+1 for everything else.


Sorry for unconvencional english XD

Offline Zaharist

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Re: chadzville - A Strategus Idea Compilation
« Reply #42 on: March 10, 2013, 11:55:33 am »
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+1 for explanation, pics and effort
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Offline Joker86

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Re: chadzville - A Strategus Idea Compilation
« Reply #43 on: March 11, 2013, 12:57:48 pm »
+2
The biggest reason for me why I never played strategus is that it seemes to be some kind of organized farming/grinding browsergame where the biggest clans wins automatically due to sheer economic and quantitative advantages. And it's a source of endless faggotry, e.g. 4 a.m. attacks, battle applications where people don't show up on purpose, multiaccounts, etc.

Another thing is that it never feeled like the medieval war cRPG should always have been.

I hope it's okay if I hijack this thread to post a few things which would have actually made me try strategus. It's not a complete suggestion like the OP, as I am neither experienced nor interested enough in strategus, but perhaps there is one or another idea which might inspire someone. Who knows?

So here are a few things I would like to see:


- Time limitation: depending on a few time zones (NA, EU) strategus is only playable during a few hours in the evening. Outside that time window the game "freezes": no movement, no economy, no orders, nothing. This is to prevent people of having to look into strat 24/7.

- Economis limitations on faction: economy is faction based, not player based. This means that a FACTION is always generating ressources, not particular players. This means that clans with more players don't necessarily have an advantage over faction of small clans or even single players. Economy is mainly generated by owning fiefs. Still having more players is benefitial, on one hand because of better micromanagment, on the other hand because certain players can have secondary skills which help improving the economy or winning battles.

- Bots. I know a lot of people hate bots, but I would implement them as a replacement for players if you can't come up with enough of them. Due to the fact that a player is always to be preferred over a bot, I think they would be used only in certain "emergency cases". My idea for bots is basically to be enother ressource next to the well known "troops" (= tickets). Before a battle start the commander can assign a certain amount of bots to a player. In the battle the player can then command those bots like in single player. The amount of the bots on the battlefield is calculated easily: amount of slots on the server minus amount of players connected. The rest if being filled up with bots, proportionally to the participating factions and their party setup. Which can indeed mean that a team of 800 men fighting against 1600 men would only be allowed to have 34 players on the server, while the other party would have 66. (Rounding always in favour of the underdog). This is to prevent factions of only few player screwing up large factions with a lot of players. It's like single player: if your party is too small, you will have a hard time against the enemy. Players can decide when their dead bots are going to respawn by calling in reinforcements. If the players die the bots follow his last order until he respawns again. The bots are different troop types, like in single player. It's up to the developers how they want to design them. If bots participate a battle, but no free slots are left, they start spawning then the player spawns are depleted. If their commander can't spawn any more, another player on the field receives the command, until all player spawns are depleted and the bots keep on spawning with the "charge" order until they are depleted as well.

- players should be able to create bandit or mercenary factions as well. Those factions follow certain rules which allow those factions to reenact real bandits or mercenaries and fill the strat world with life and variety. It's also a nice way to play as a single player rather randomly and without big time investment. Especially if you allow bandits to place a hideout somewhere on the map, which would logically be somehwere in the woods or mountains, where you are unlikely to be encountered by enemy scouts.

- Secondary skills. For example tactics, which can influence the player slot relation mentioned above. All tactics skills for each party get added, and the procentual amount of skill one party has more than the other gets added to their slots. So if the smaller party has an overall tactics level of 24 and the bigger party a level of 20, the small party won by 20% and gets this value added to their slots. 20% of 34 is about 7%, so the new relation would be 41 vs. 59, and not 34 vs. 67. Already better.

Another idea are medical skills. I don't know which one of them it is, but the more and better medics you have in your party, the more lost tickets and bots are regained after a battle. Not that the additional effects for more and better medics decrease exponentially, until they reach a certain value, about 10-20% recovery at the max, I would say.

Then we need path finding, spotting and tracking. This is to encourage players of sneaking through enemy territory and creating the need of setting up patrols and scouts.

A leadership skill could be used to determine whether troops start fleeing or not. Once a certain amount of casualties is reached, the game starts comparing the percentual casualties of both teams. Once a team has considerably more (percentual) losses than the other one, morale starts dropping and eventually troops start rooting, reducing the tickets slowly (or fast, depending on the morale level). Rooted troops return to the faction's fiefs or parties on the field after some time, but are lost for that battle. A high leadership value can reduce that effect or completely stop it.

Of course other skills like trading, crafting and so on could be needed.

- NPC leaders can be hired. Depending on the money you want to spend, those NPCs have certain secondary skills which help your faction. For example I'd say you have three quality levels, where the skill is either 3, 5 or 7. While it is easier to have an NPCs with a secondary skill of five, it would still be preferable to have a player to the job, although his skill might be lower, because after some time the player might even reach skill level 8, 9 or 10, which no NPC can. But it's again a good option for factions with only few players.

- The map having influence on the war. I don't know how far this is already implemented, but there should be good and bad terrain, improving your movement speed or reducing it. Same goes with visibility. Perhaps you want to move your army through a forest towards the enemy castle? It will move way slower, but the enemy scouts won't see you either, and the enemy won't be able to send reinforcements.

- Sieges should need time to be set up (don't know how far this is already implemented), and you should also have the option to siege someone until they starve to death. You should also be allowed to sally out and make surprise attacks. On the other hand players whould be allowed to try surprise attacks on castles, either surprisingly rushing through the still opened gate with cavalry, entering in disguise or some of those mission impossible actions where fighters climb up some ropes or the abort during night. I don't know how to implement this, though.

- You should also have to set up a camp before being able to fight a field battle properly. The game tracks who clicked first on attacking the enemy/following the enemy party, and depending on this flags one party as attacker and the other one as defender. The defender needs to set up a camp so that the fight will be an open field battle. If the defender fails to do so in time (e.g. because the enemy light cavalry and the player with high path finding and spotting skill attack surprisingly from the near forest), a "defend the treck"-map is being loeaded, where the defender spawns in the middle of the map and the attacker at the corners. There are several destructible waggons in the middle of the map, and every destroyed waggon reduces the tickets/bots/goods that party is having by a considerable amount. So better don't let the enemy surprise you while marching.

- complete rework of the fief system. I think when strategus starts there should only be some villages scattered around the map. These villages can be claimed by factions randomly spawning on that map. Once a village is owned it can be improved and fortified by the factions, depending on whether they want it to be a city (better for economy) or a castle (better for defense and recruiting troops). Like in Medieval II, I think that seperation is quite reasonable. All fortifications can be improved further. It works like this: an amount of siege maps is being created, for several cultures. For the western culturea castle could start with a wooden castle, the next map would be a stone house, then a small stone castle, a stone castle with moat, a stone castle with moat and inner defense ring and finally a stone castle with moat, inner defense ring and keep in the center. The better the fortification is, the more difficult it is to conquer. I wouldn't make them necessarily "bigger", because this means it's more difficult to protect. Just give them more loop holes, bottle necks, etc.

- Of course some economic improvements can be made on fiefs as well. I don't know how this is implemented already, but I can think of basically everything: mines, wells, merchant/craft guild houses, toll posts, churches, schools, theater hosues, grain elevators (increases time before starvation kicks in in sieges), apothecaries, etc., the amount of possibilites is almost unlimited. Castles can also have different training grounds, tournament places and other stuff which allows you to recruit the different bot types and increase the generating of the common player ticket troops. And all fiefs can have garrison quarters, which can basically be extended unlimitedly, but for exponentially increasing costs.

- If a lot of money is spent, a faction can found a new village on the map (name must follow certain rules and has to be approved by the devs). This is a huge hit to the treasury of a faction, but will definitely pay out on long term.

- Assassination feature: factionless players or players of a bandit/mercenary faction can be hired as assassins. They receive a certain amount of gold upon murdering a certain player. Once the victim is reached by the assassin, a battle is sceduled. This battle doesn't have tickets, it's more something like a duel between those two players. Still I think that there could be the option to have both players being supported by other players or bots. For example the more fiefs a victim owns, the higher the rank in his faction and so on, the more and better bodyguards he will have. And the more money the customer pays, the more helpers the assassin will have. If the victim or the assassin (or both!) die in that battle, their characters get reset and lose all money, items and troops. They are dead.


That's basically it. Sorry for that wall of text, but somehow I felt the urge to tell my ideas. Interestingly enough, a lot of those ideas are actually combinable with the OP, or at least try to achieve the same (e.g. reducing the - sometimes enormous - size and power differences between factions)


Edit: TL;DR version


- Strategus only playable at the evening during a few hours. Rest of the time the game pauses.
- economy is faction based, not player based. This means no matter how many players are in a faction, 1 or 50, all factions generate the same ressources (under same circumstances).
- bandit faction and mercenary faction features.
- implementation of AI driven bots, commandable on the map as NPCs or in battle as soldiers. Don't hate on this, this is to help factions with few players.
- secondary skills: pathfinding, spotting, surgery, trading, weapon smithing, leadership
- no more even teams when the armies are not even. Instead proportional teams, which means 2400 tickets vs. 1600 tickets => 60 players vs. 40 on the server. the secondary tactics skill can change that (in both directions)
- routing: if the proportional losses of one team are much bigger than those of the other team, the losing team suffers ticket depletion to represent fleeing troops. Those tickets are added later on again, but are lost for the battle. Leadership secondary skill can prevent this.
- surgery secondary skill allowing "regeneration" of lost tickets after a battle.
- map terrain having influence on economy, movement speed and sight distance. E.g. sneaking up to a castle through a forest. Makes scouting and secondary skills like path finding, spotting and tracking important.
- improved siege system with surprise attacks on castles, undercover actions, and simply siegeing until the defenders are starved to death.
- improved battle system: your party must prepare for open battles or will be caught marching by the enemy, who can attack your supplies. You don't want that. Good way to make fast vanguards or professional rearguards important.
- all fiefs start as villages, and players can advance them to castles or cities. All fiefs highly customizable. The amount of money spent on the defenses determines the map which is loaded in case of a siege.
- possibility to place new villages on the map by spending a shitload of money.
- assassination feature: players can get hired to kill another player. Initiated battle is without respawns and only with those two fighters, but with the possibility of bodyguards and helping hitmen participating as well. Dying in this battle means losing all money, troops, items, etc.
« Last Edit: March 11, 2013, 04:54:54 pm by Joker86 »
Joker makes a very good point.
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Offline Molly

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Re: chadzville - A Strategus Idea Compilation
« Reply #44 on: March 11, 2013, 01:20:29 pm »
+4
(click to show/hide)
You should know by now that nobody is going to read all this w/o a TL;DR-version... I certainly didn't...  8-)
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