Get light crossbow back to 1 slot?

[Uumdi]

Make it unable to reload on horseback.   $$$

Then make it 0 slot for all i care.

[Lt_Anders]

Something most people forget, xbows tend to lose significant damage when raining, as well as shooting at length. Anything beyond mid range and the xbow will hit you like a wet noodle especially if raining.

[XXTNTXX]

Something most people forget, xbows tend to lose significant damage when raining, as well as shooting at length. Anything beyond mid range and the xbow will hit you like a wet noodle especially if raining.

Another thing most people forget, if you have horse, your slots should be at least doubled, as 8 not 4. But of course, it should take a little longer time when you take weapons from horse.

Crossbow is powerful, because in reality it is powerful. Same thing for horse. But most people in game want some kind of balance to remove the powerful things, not reality.

On the other hand, the upkeep system already gave the balance. But it seems that lots of people forget the upkeep system and only look at which is too powerful. When you get hit by powerful things, don’t forget that they have to pay more upkeep on that. For example, this time changing light crossbow to 2 slots just destroyed the build of sword-shield horse crossbowman. But do people know, for a reasonable sword-shield horse crossbowman, it needs at least 4000 gold for upkeep. As this amount of upkeep, it is generally not possible to earn gold, but only to lose gold. I cannot understand why to nerf light crossbow for horse crossbowman, as upkeep already gave the balance.

[Tears of Destiny]

I cannot understand why to nerf light crossbow for horse crossbowman, as upkeep already gave the balance.

Probably to force them to bring a melee weapon (Forcing your main weapon to be two slots means you now can bring a zero slot melee), which is the main motivator for archer tweaks (Force them to fight in melee).

[Joker86]

Still I think the solution is really bad. After upkeep killed heavy cavalry/plated infantry, and alle the nerfs made it much more difficult to have a viable archer-melee hybrid, now the classical crossbow-shieldman with board shield and decent melee weapon is gone for good.

I would even prefer adding some kind of "spanning skill" (not more ridiculous than some other skills) which can be raised let's say up to a value of 6 or the like. So who likes to hybridize can do so, but for a real price, other than money (=upkeep), which is basically available in an umlimited extend, at least for some veteran players. Slots are only a bad system to support the not working ukeep system.

[donib]

Why not? An archer or thrower can be good in melee as well as in their respective ranged class.(even full hybrids of both). Why not xbow? cause it's Pierce and you are a homo 2h with high armor? Cause you could hybrid it and be decent?

It's not the class that makes these good, it's the players. A shit hybrid 2h/xbow is bad regardless of which weapon they use.
Also -1 for removal of a class.

Average 2h hero build 18/21 or 21/18 and you are set.

Allocate some of the wpf points (at best with an agi build) to the crossbow and you are set. Effective both in melee and in crossbow. Why should you make a pure 2h then? If you can have the ultimate build which is the crossbow 2h (mace) hybrid.

Hybrids should be more viable, yes, but then it must be in all aspects and not only for the crossbow, because this is the best hybrid, actually it shouldn't even be called a hybrid because is there such a thing as dedicated crossbow? in a way that resembles a dedicated archer? No, because the investment is cheap.

Dont get me wrong ive played as a crossbowman with kettle helmet and mail, shield and 1h weapon and it was fun, and i do think this must be viable hybrid, but obviously the melee effectiveness of it compared to a dedicated shielder should be less, doesnt mean he is going to loose in a fight, but he must make a trade off, like not being able to select shielder specialist equipment, some higher tier shields or weapons etc.

[oprah_winfrey]

Still I think the solution is really bad. After upkeep killed heavy cavalry/plated infantry, and alle the nerfs made it much more difficult to have a viable archer-melee hybrid, now the classical crossbow-shieldman with board shield and decent melee weapon is gone for good.

Upkeep didn't kill plated infantry on NA, changing the soak damage did.

[Weedmaster]

Hybrids should be more viable, yes, but then it must be in all aspects and not only for the crossbow, because this is the best hybrid, actually it shouldn't even be called a hybrid because is there such a thing as dedicated crossbow? in a way that resembles a dedicated archer? No, because the investment is cheap.

That is a valid reflection on the fact that medieval archers needed significantly more training.
Sure, archers get the better 1slot weapon to compensate, but only a hunting crossbow? Sure, 1slot weapons should be somewhat weaker, but only a quarterstaff/shortened spear? One solution would be to allow them to use decent, but not awesome, weapons in both categories by making them 1.5 slot for instance.

[MrShine]

Changing crossbow to 2 slots... fine whatever.

Light crossbow though?  This seems like an over-zealous change. 

[Falka]

now the classical crossbow-shieldman with board shield and decent melee weapon is gone for good.

Broad short sword at +3 has 31 pierce, 33 cut, 102 speed, 0 slot, 86 length, and is more than decent 1h sword. Crossbow or even arbalest + bolts + 1 slot shield + broad short sword = "classical crossbow-shieldman". Your argument is invalid.

[Joker86]

Board short sword at +3 has 31 pierce, 33 cut, 102 speed, 0 slot, 86 length, and is more than decent 1h sword. Crossbow or even arbalest + 1 slot shield + board short shield = "classical crossbow-shieldman". Your argument is invalid.

Despite that I don't even get totally what you wrote there (it's kind of really messy), you don't list up bolts, do you? They are another slot. So even if you take a 0 slot 1hd weapon, you are limited to a crappy 1 slot shield, which is not really a "viable" melee build, rather something to better survive melee emergency cases, not more.

Ah you edited it. Better understandable, much better.

But still, argumenting in using a +3 weapon (even I don't own any!) or going half of your time (hybrid) into melee with a 1 slot shield isn't a viable counter argument for me. It would be a bad build. And the cutting damage would have its troubles if you are not really strong with a lot of PS and WPF, like a dedicated melee build. I'd prefer going blunt or pierce.

[Falka]

Heh, should be better now 

you are limited to a crappy 1 slot shield

 

[Joker86]

Heh, should be better now 

 

Please allow me to consider them noticeable inferior to two slot shields.

[Ronin]

Joker you're talking about hybrids. Hybrids should not be able to get the best melee weapon, the best shield and the best crossbows in my opinion. 1 slot shields are not crappy though. Shields are just shields. You only block with them. Not much all that fancy and gamebreaking stuff.

[Falka]

argumenting in using a +3 weapon (even I don't own any!) or going half of your time (hybrid) into melee with a 1 slot shield isn't a viable counter argument for me. It would be a bad build. And the cutting damage would have its troubles if you are not really strong with a lot of PS and WPF, like a dedicated melee build. I'd prefer going blunt or pierce.

Most of 1h sword get +2 pierce dmg at +3, but broad short sword gets +3, that's what I wanted to point out. And I can not agree that 1 slot shields are inferior to 2 slots shields. Before the patch elite cav shield was most expensive shield.