Author Topic: Why the current battle system needs a fix… (in big battles)  (Read 4228 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Erasmas

  • Earl
  • ******
  • Renown: 483
  • Infamy: 138
  • cRPG Player Sir Black Bishop A Gentleman and a Scholar
  • The crows had come
    • View Profile
  • Faction: Grey Order
  • Game nicks: Erasmas_the_Grey
+26
The current strategus battle (or rather siege) system has a flaw that should be fixed.

As you all know the attacker needs to have the army equal or higher than 1/3 of the defenders army.  You also all know that with the current time limit of the battle it makes no sense to run the battles with the armies larger than 1600 troops.

Let me quote our Strategus mastermind on that topic:

I ) troop count
(click to show/hide)


Usually it is not a big deal, cause the battles are kept within this limits, but now we can see sieges of castles and towns with large garrisons.  It is impossible to take them in one go, unless you are very, very lucky and take the flags. Simple mathematics shows that if the castle or town has the army of 4800 or higher, the attacker will have to pay with tickets solely for the pleasure of besieging the location.

If you look at the map, you will see a lot of castles and towns with the armies larger than 4800. Let me give you a neutral example: Reindi Castle has the army of 6363. You will need 2121 tickets just to attack it.  Considering that the army of 1600 is a reasonable number for the time of the battle, ca. 500 tickets (even with fully filled rosters) will be lost by the attacker due to lapse of time.

It does not make any sense. It is a waste of resources and the (unfair) advantage for the large army owners kept in castles/towns. It “by definition” makes the siege costs higher for the attacker than for the defender, and I do not see any justification for that. (In fact it already is more expensive for the attacker - the upkeep of the army in field is higher than in garrison). The castles and towns are not supposed to be invincible.

Proposed solutions:

1.   Increase the time limit for the sieges with large numbers of defending troops. If both parties want (and are able) to have such a big and long battles – let them have it. 

or

2.   Modify the “1/3” rule for the battles with the defenders armies larger than 4800, so that it is possible to attack such army with only 1600 troops. If the attacker wish to have several battles with lower numbers, and lose some of them (losing troops and gear, and giving the defender the advantage of the loot) – why not? But at least the attacker will not lose the troops without actually using the them at the battle.

PS.

And before you start whining, yes, a very particular example lead me to make this post:

http://c-rpg.net/index.php?page=battlesupcoming#!?page=battledetail&id=2744

At least 600-800 tickets will inevitably go down the drain in that battle. Just imagine the battlefield where after few hours of fights generals shout "stop" and the soldiers of the attacking army are neatly lined up and shot in the heads, despite the will of both defenders and attackers to fight. This is ridiculous.

« Last Edit: March 05, 2013, 10:13:58 pm by Erasmas »
visitors can't see pics , please register or login

Offline serr

  • OKAM Developer
  • ***
  • Renown: 293
  • Infamy: 19
  • cRPG Player A Gentleman and a Scholar
    • View Profile
  • Faction: Wataga
Re: Why the current battle system needs a fix… (in big battles)
« Reply #1 on: March 05, 2013, 10:11:54 pm »
0
Agree.
There is also third possible solution - set limits for garrisons in fiefs. Like 5k for cities, 3k for castles and 1500 for villages
This would forbid factions to keep many troops in fiefs and force them to make battles.

Offline Tyr_

  • Earl
  • ******
  • Renown: 445
  • Infamy: 134
  • cRPG Player
  • Suum cuique
    • View Profile
  • Faction: Mercenaries
  • Game nicks: Merc_Tyr; Merc_Nemo; Caesar_Salad
  • IRC nick: Tyr_
Re: Why the current battle system needs a fix… (in big battles)
« Reply #2 on: March 05, 2013, 10:15:02 pm »
0
isnt it limited at 1000? so you can attack every fief with a 1k army, no matter how big the garrison is
visitors can't see pics , please register or login

Offline Always

  • Knight
  • ***
  • Renown: 34
  • Infamy: 1
  • cRPG Player
    • View Profile
  • Game nicks: Grey_Always
  • IRC nick: Always
Re: Why the current battle system needs a fix… (in big battles)
« Reply #3 on: March 05, 2013, 10:17:49 pm »
0
Agreed!

Offline Erasmas

  • Earl
  • ******
  • Renown: 483
  • Infamy: 138
  • cRPG Player Sir Black Bishop A Gentleman and a Scholar
  • The crows had come
    • View Profile
  • Faction: Grey Order
  • Game nicks: Erasmas_the_Grey
Re: Why the current battle system needs a fix… (in big battles)
« Reply #4 on: March 05, 2013, 10:19:10 pm »
+1
Well, we couldn't attack Yalen with less than 2400 troops. So maybe that refers to castles/towns only. The issue is still standing though.
visitors can't see pics , please register or login

Offline Osiris

  • King
  • **********
  • Renown: 1449
  • Infamy: 324
  • cRPG Player A Gentleman and a Scholar
    • View Profile
  • Faction: Merc
  • Game nicks: Osiris. Aethelstan
  • IRC nick: _Osiris_
i make terrible warband videos! https://youtu.be/jUdVGIOuULk

Offline Rebelyell

  • King
  • **********
  • Renown: 1267
  • Infamy: 398
  • cRPG Player A Gentleman and a Scholar
    • View Profile
  • Faction: Knights Templar
  • Game nicks: Templar_Bobby
  • IRC nick: boobby
Re: Why the current battle system needs a fix… (in big battles)
« Reply #6 on: March 05, 2013, 10:28:56 pm »
0
Well, we couldn't attack Yalen with less than 2400 troops. So maybe that refers to castles/towns only. The issue is still standing though.
time for grind
visitors can't see pics , please register or login

Hey, I just met you,
And this is crazy,
You just killed me
Nerf you maybe?

Offline Lt_Anders

  • King
  • **********
  • Renown: 1049
  • Infamy: 651
  • cRPG Player Sir Black Pawn A Gentleman and a Scholar
  • Man, I still play this shit?
    • View Profile
    • Drowtales
  • Faction: Astralis
  • Game nicks: Anders_Astralis
Re: Why the current battle system needs a fix… (in big battles)
« Reply #7 on: March 06, 2013, 02:15:39 am »
0
EXCEPT, when attacking a fief, you don't  need 1/3 of the defenders. I can point a 6k defenders(2k garrison) versus 1.5k attacking army. that's WAY less than 1/3 but was still doable.
visitors can't see pics , please register or login

Offline Bjarky

  • Earl
  • ******
  • Renown: 352
  • Infamy: 31
  • cRPG Player A Gentleman and a Scholar
  • U got gold? I bring tea, silk, hemp, camels +more!
    • View Profile
  • Faction: Caravan Guild (Leadership member)
  • Game nicks: Guard_BD_Bjarky, Guard_the_Lederhosen
  • IRC nick: bjarky
Re: Why the current battle system needs a fix… (in big battles)
« Reply #8 on: March 06, 2013, 06:38:23 am »
0
EXCEPT, when attacking a fief, you don't  need 1/3 of the defenders. I can point a 6k defenders(2k garrison) versus 1.5k attacking army. that's WAY less than 1/3 but was still doable.
only the army counts, pop doesnt matter in order to allow raids.

Offline Malaclypse

  • King
  • **********
  • Renown: 1299
  • Infamy: 146
  • cRPG Player A Gentleman and a Scholar
  • In girum imus nocte et consumimur igni.
    • View Profile
Re: Why the current battle system needs a fix… (in big battles)
« Reply #9 on: March 06, 2013, 07:23:27 am »
0
Agree.
There is also third possible solution - set limits for garrisons in fiefs. Like 5k for cities, 3k for castles and 1500 for villages
This would forbid factions to keep many troops in fiefs and force them to make battles.

If you do this it seems like it'd only be fair to set a hard cap on the amount of troops a field army can hold as well.
You think you're pretty smart with your dago mustache and your greasy hair.

Offline Vovka

  • King
  • **********
  • Renown: 1174
  • Infamy: 240
  • cRPG Player Sir White Bishop A Gentleman and a Scholar
    • View Profile
  • Faction: Druzhina
  • Game nicks: Druzhina_Vovka
  • IRC nick: Vovka
Re: Why the current battle system needs a fix… (in big battles)
« Reply #10 on: March 06, 2013, 09:18:58 am »
+2
just slightly modify the rule "u need equal or higher than 1/3 of the defenders army but not more than 1600"
So if owners want safe gold from upkeep huge armies in 1 fiefs he risky to loose all army if attackers take flags
visitors can't see pics , please register or login

Offline KingBread

  • Earl
  • ******
  • Renown: 445
  • Infamy: 42
  • cRPG Player Sir White Knight
    • View Profile
  • Faction: Fallen
  • Game nicks: KingBread
Re: Why the current battle system needs a fix… (in big battles)
« Reply #11 on: March 06, 2013, 09:48:16 am »
0
just slightly modify the rule "u need equal or higher than 1/3 of the defenders army but not more than 1600"
So if owners want safe gold from upkeep huge armies in 1 fiefs he risky to loose all army if attackers take flags
Mayby even less than 1600 would still be fine
visitors can't see pics , please register or login

Offline Arathian

  • Duke
  • *******
  • Renown: 650
  • Infamy: 175
  • cRPG Player A Gentleman and a Scholar
  • Pick it up you white ass cracka
    • View Profile
  • Faction: Frisians
  • Game nicks: Arathian, schizophrenic_axe_murderer
Re: Why the current battle system needs a fix… (in big battles)
« Reply #12 on: March 06, 2013, 10:06:38 am »
+3
I agree.

And yes, this is self-advertisement, but THIS would be another freeking solution.

Please, take a look and tell me your opinions on that suggestion.

http://forum.meleegaming.com/suggestions-corner/surrender-retreat-and-battles-a-strategus-suggestion/msg629851/#msg629851

Unless the defenders physically sally out and cap the flags, the attackers could simply retreat at the end of the timer, the army preserved and ready to fight again, solving the problem + adding depth to the engagements.
visitors can't see pics , please register or login

Offline Erasmas

  • Earl
  • ******
  • Renown: 483
  • Infamy: 138
  • cRPG Player Sir Black Bishop A Gentleman and a Scholar
  • The crows had come
    • View Profile
  • Faction: Grey Order
  • Game nicks: Erasmas_the_Grey
Re: Why the current battle system needs a fix… (in big battles)
« Reply #13 on: March 06, 2013, 11:08:27 pm »
0
At least 600-800 tickets will inevitably go down the drain in that battle.
[/i]

That was 526 tickets this time... Let's see the next one:

http://c-rpg.net/index.php?page=battlesupcoming#!?page=battledetail&id=2764

Dear devs, any chance to see that mechanism fixed in a predictable future?

visitors can't see pics , please register or login

Offline Segd

  • Marshall
  • ********
  • Renown: 845
  • Infamy: 88
  • cRPG Player A Gentleman and a Scholar
    • View Profile
Re: Why the current battle system needs a fix… (in big battles)
« Reply #14 on: March 06, 2013, 11:40:41 pm »
+2
Try this nut:
Narra
Population: 3000
Owner: Franke_HRE
Army: 30633
Gold: 3030316
Price: 15
S&D: 64
Attack Narra!
Enter Narra
 :rolleyes: