Democracy now! Set up balance and equipment committee by players, for players.

[Phew]

Or solicit community feedback on an equation for a singular item fitness parameter, apply it uniformly to all items without incorporating any human bias, and change the coefficients based on how the community responds to the results (i.e. if the item fitness equation make Cudgel insanely OP, then increase the fitness coefficient for blunt damage or knockdown or whatever).

But the devs don't like this idea, so oh well. "Balance until it feels right" is what we get, even if it yields such turds as the Falchion.

[Thomek]

It won't be direct democracy. It will be a committee where all members have VETO.

That should make sure that no unfair decisions will be made, (and also fewer and more conservative decisions)

But that is still better than NO decisions being made. After a good long period without balance patches, cRPG metagame becomes stale. Right now we have a rather boring influx of xbows i.ex. *imo

The majority of players care about more than themselves. They too realize that the game is not just their own playground, but that the balancers decisions will affect the whole game, not the least keeping it interesting for new players. (Targets)

Perhaps I'm naive, but I could see the community selecting members such as Tydeus or others that have a clue about game mechanics. I'm pretty sure we can find three of them out there. If the community selects one, or even two complete retards, the one sane community member will make sure they can't really hurt the game.

In any case, I'm sure the devs would have the last word in case extreme decisions would be made.

[Joker86]

Or solicit community feedback on an equation for a singular item fitness parameter, apply it uniformly to all items without incorporating any human bias, and change the coefficients based on how the community responds to the results (i.e. if the item fitness equation make Cudgel insanely OP, then increase the fitness coefficient for blunt damage or knockdown or whatever).

But the devs don't like this idea, so oh well. "Balance until it feels right" is what we get, even if it yields such turds as the Falchion.

There are way too many factors as that you could balance items properly only by fitness. It will already fail if you consider that you'd have to calculate each item value with the item combination which is to be expected on the servers. Pikes are not that useful if the enemy has no cavalry, but on the other hand cavalry is plain useless if the enemy team consists only of pikemen. It's not like you can calculate this.

[Phew]

There are way too many factors as that you could balance items properly only by fitness. It will already fail if you consider that you'd have to calculate each item value with the item combination which is to be expected on the servers. Pikes are not that useful if the enemy has no cavalry, but on the other hand cavalry is plain useless if the enemy team consists only of pikemen. It's not like you can calculate this.

Everything can be parameterized, especially things in a video game that are already parameterized into 1s and 0s anyway. You just have to make sure the weighting for the coefficients is based on some rational basis, and everything will work itself out.

For instance; say server statistics show that cavalry make up 20% of the server population, on average. Thus, assign horse-rearing weapons a 20% "bonus" to their fitness parameter, as a starting point. Then tweak later based on how the community responds.

[Tydeus]

But that is still better than NO decisions being made. After a good long period without balance patches, cRPG metagame becomes stale. Right now we have a rather boring influx of xbows

Recently I helped Urist extensively with multiple formulas, one of which, the turn speed formula, has recently been implemented on beta test servers. I can't say what the status is on the other two, but it's not because the balance team isn't doing anything. Okin may be inactive, at least in irc, but Shik, Urist and Fasader are still active(not sure as to the extent of Fasader's activity though).

Everything can be parameterized, especially things in a video game that are already parameterized into 1s and 0s anyway. You just have to make sure the weighting for the coefficients is based on some rational basis, and everything will work itself out.

For instance; say server statistics show that cavalry make up 20% of the server population, on average. Thus, assign horse-rearing weapons a 20% "bonus" to their fitness parameter, as a starting point. Then tweak later based on how the community responds.

Again, one of the reason this is shit for games, or at least this one, is you can't account for metagame changes. Sometimes Fallen shows up in force with 20 archers, sometimes there are only a couple of archers. How are you supposed to balance ranged for when there are lots, and when there are few? You'd have to have a dynamic system setup that changes game mechanics each round, and that will never happen.

[Rumblood]

Again, one of the reason this is shit for games, or at least this one, is you can't account for metagame changes. Sometimes Fallen shows up in force with 20 archers, sometimes there are only a couple of archers. How are you supposed to balance ranged for when there are lots, and when there are few? You'd have to have a dynamic system setup that changes game mechanics each round, and that will never happen.

Class balance with a greater weight over banner balance has been proposed and requested for some time now.

[Tydeus]

Class balance with a greater weight over banner balance has been proposed and requested for some time now.

That is just a coincidence where the chosen example happened to be just a "class", not a weapon or armor type. What if I had used heavy cavalry, as opposed to light, instead of archers?

[Phew]

My suggestion for weapon fitness balance is aimed for at infantry melee, although "couchable", "usable on horseback", etc should result in a fitness bonus just like knockdown or crushthrough or whatever. I always use the Falchion as an example, because it has the most sh!t stats of any weapon in the game; a systematic item fitness approach never would have allowed this sword to be so terrible. Similarly, items like Longsword definitely didn't need the buff they got in the last patch, since it was already an insane weapon.