request Ban for Blackzilla and Smoothrich

[Matey]

That's true, it wasn't against the rules at the time, which is a good point.

But isn't this also a one time deal? They attacked their own city to delay you and take their stuff out of it, right? I'm kind of out of the loop now that I'm not into Strategus but from what I've read I think that is the case. Also, if a damaged reputation was penalty enough in your case, why is a ban necessary here? I would think that bans are necessary for repeat offenses, but I can't recall a time when they have done this previously.

The precedent for this sort of thing was set in strat 3.0
The rule is clearly stated in the strat rules thread

"Strat map
          1) CMP's rules for not attacking your village to delay your enemy
 http://forum.meleegaming.com/strategus-general-discussion/strategus-rules/"

The first time this happened was when Fallen locked down their fief prior to an occitan attack, the punishment levied against Fallen was for a bunch of crazy guys on magic carpets firebombing 2000 of their best equipped troops and crippling their fief which was taken with relative ease after.

[Smoothrich]

That's true, it wasn't against the rules at the time, which is a good point.

But isn't this also a one time deal? They attacked their own city to delay you and take their stuff out of it, right? I'm kind of out of the loop now that I'm not into Strategus but from what I've read I think that is the case. Also, if a damaged reputation was penalty enough in your case, why is a ban necessary here? I would think that bans are necessary for repeat offenses, but I can't recall a time when they have done this previously.

Tom, Blackzilla was literally part of a scheme with several other players to depose me and surrender Hero Party to FCC, but apparently FCC screwed it up for themselves and he backed out and we had to create a brand new Strategus faction with new leadership, but a castle owner of ours went through with it anyways, a_bear_irl.

[Zlisch_The_Butcher]

These fcc guys are just crying 'cause Kesh got perma'd.

[Blackzilla]

Ha, I didnt know he was banned still. They offered me his fief in exchange for Ahmerrad.

[Matey]

These fcc guys are just crying 'cause Kesh got perma'd.

To be fair, Kesh was found innocent of multi-accounting and his permaban is entirely due to posting admin chat logs and not being able and/or willing to reveal who sent him those logs.

[BaleOhay]

Strat map
          1) CMP's rules for not attacking your village to delay your enemy
 http://forum.meleegaming.com/strategus-general-discussion/strategus-rules/

rule number one on the strat rules tom. What they did was against stated rules. Should be banned from strat, We even mentioned this to Zilla and his response was I will just buy another key what are they 13 bucks.

[TurmoilTom]

The precedent for this sort of thing was set in strat 3.0
The rule is clearly stated in the strat rules thread

"Strat map
          1) CMP's rules for not attacking your village to delay your enemy
 http://forum.meleegaming.com/strategus-general-discussion/strategus-rules/"

The first time this happened was when Fallen locked down their fief prior to an occitan attack, the punishment levied against Fallen was for a bunch of crazy guys on magic carpets firebombing 2000 of their best equipped troops and crippling their fief which was taken with relative ease after.

The Fallen Bombing is a touchy case, because in that instance it was not against the rules at the time either. They even approached the devs and asked if it was allowed or not, only to receive no reply and get tons of their stuff blown to bits by fireballs when they used the exploit to their advantage.

The only "precedent" I saw coming out of that situation was that the devs don't care about what the rules are at the time and do what they want. If the Fallen Bombing was in any way justified it would have meant that razing one of the FCC fiefs after the item bomb would have been justified as well. Neither were officially against the rules at the time and yet the Fallen were the only ones who got stomped on for it.

Tom, Blackzilla was literally part of a scheme with several other players to depose me and surrender Hero Party to FCC, but apparently FCC screwed it up for themselves and he backed out and we had to create a brand new Strategus faction with new leadership, but a castle owner of ours went through with it anyways, a_bear_irl.

I understand your case, Smooth. It's just that I'm having a hard time wrapping my mind around the FCC's side of the story.

[Matey]

The Fallen Bombing is a touchy case, because in that instance it was not against the rules at the time either. They even approached the devs and asked if it was allowed or not, only to receive no reply and get tons of their stuff blown to bits by fireballs when they used the exploit to their advantage.

The only "precedent" I saw coming out of that situation was that the devs don't care about what the rules are at the time and do what they want. If the Fallen Bombing was in any way justified it would have meant that razing one of the FCC fiefs after the item bomb would have been justified as well. Neither were officially against the rules at the time and yet the Fallen were the only ones who got stomped on for it.

I understand your case, Smooth. It's just that I'm having a hard time wrapping my mind around the FCC's side of the story.

You make a good point Tom. Fallen got hit hard when it wasn't against the rules; I guess that should mean the response for those breaking the rule intentionally should be interesting to see.

And yes, smooth is usually very good at telling stories on the forums but sometimes even smooth can't distract people from the facts.

[Count_Curtis]

it would be mighty biased if they where let off the hook for this. i mean, we didn't break the rule INTENTIONALLY (Yes, we did break the rules though) but when we broke the rule, this happened:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R1FUke_kmO0&list=UUICEMn0fqiwmnRY6OrC-6fw&index=5

[Smoothrich]

And yes, smooth is usually very good at telling stories on the forums but sometimes even smooth can't distract people from the facts.

Like the fact that two other fiefs left the faction at the same time, a castle temporarily joined FCC, and now we have two factionless  fiefs in the middle of our territory when one came back?  There was a coup attempt and well.. we aren't even Hero Party anymore, Rohy founded a new faction that was still loyal to Occitan.  The entire point was choosing to stay with Occitan or join FCC and questioning leadership/direction.

Just because an internal struggle didn't 100 percent go your way, doesn't mean there is a vast conspiracy here.  Just impotent pouting.

[Gmnotutoo]

I don't recall saying that, but I do recall saying that Smooth and I will honor duel, why does it matter. The only player you had left to attack the fief within a 24 hour time limit wouldve been vick. Who was banned, so I didnt delay shit. Are you afraid now that if you do attack ahmerrad, youll have to fight a fair battle?

If Smooth didn't wrongfully ban Kesh, then none of this would've happened and Vick would've attacked a while ago. Akira was also in the area, but like Vick she was accidentally banned as well. There were three separate armies that were also on the outskirts of the land heading towards the castle that would have reached in less than 10 hours. I was one of them, hiding out in New Mawiti.

[Matey]

Like the fact that two other fiefs left the faction at the same time, a castle temporarily joined FCC, and now we have two factionless  fiefs in the middle of our territory when one came back?  There was a coup attempt and well.. we aren't even Hero Party anymore, Rohy founded a new faction that was still loyal to Occitan.  The entire point was choosing to stay with Occitan or join FCC and questioning leadership/direction.

Just because an internal struggle didn't 100 percent go your way, doesn't mean there is a vast conspiracy here.  Just impotent pouting.

i don't see how people legitimately leaving your faction makes it any less of a cheat that zilla pretended to leave in order to save your main fief.
you may also notice how those who left did so at about the same time blackzilla confirmed that his rebellion was actually a fief transfer. I don't know if people were disgusted at the length you and zilla went to to protect your main fief and the gold within or if they were going to leave anyways, but i don't see how it makes the fief transfer any less of a cheat.

[TurmoilTom]

The problem I see here is that there aren't any facts about this at all. Just different people tossing stories around. Everything that happens behind the scenes can be speculated. Add in the fact that the only way to justify this ban request is to prove that Smoothrich and Blackzilla intended it from the get-go and it just becomes a huge mess.

Besides, if the mere series of events, regardless of intention, becomes an offense you can be banned for, then the rules should merely be changed to "Joining a Strat faction, warring against it at the same time as another faction and then rejoining it later is against the rules."

[Matey]

The problem I see here is that there aren't any facts about this at all. Just different people tossing stories around. Everything that happens behind the scenes can be speculated. Add in the fact that the only way to justify this ban request is to prove that Smoothrich and Blackzilla intended it from the get-go and it just becomes a huge mess.

Besides, if the mere series of events, regardless of intention, becomes an offense you can be banned for, then the rules should merely be changed to "Joining a Strat faction, warring against it at the same time as another faction and then rejoining it later is against the rules."

he never warred agaisnt smoothrich. the city "attack" was zilla and a handful of mercs vs smoothrich and one other jabrona guy. they dicked around and then gave the fief to zilla. If you want an unbiased opinion of the transfer itself, talk to canary, he witnessed it and said he would be bringing it to the devs attention.

[MURDERTRON]

I would like to ask all parties in this argument to deal only in facts in this thread.  We can talk motives at the time, but they are so easily disguised or, dare I say it, falsely reported.  This is not the diplomacy forum, it is not the place for fairy tales and magic dust.    Please stick to the topic at hand with only relevant information.  There is a thread of Strategus history and an entire subforum for Diplomacy.

This thread is not about Kesh or anyone else's bans, except the people in the topic.