Author Topic: HACKED  (Read 1201 times)

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Offline oprah_winfrey

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Re: Something is rotten in cRPG(maybe in other RPG's aswell)
« Reply #15 on: February 20, 2013, 07:36:38 pm »
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Maybe if people actually stopped active leechers (like the people who equip a torch for 3 weeks of daily play in the battle server) you wouldn't have so much money available for people to spend on loompoints.

The money has to come from somewhere (in game) it isn't produced by the chadz mint.

A lot of it is residual gold that has just been sitting around for a while. Mostly from old players. Also most people play they make gold without even trying to.

Offline Torp

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Re: Something is rotten in cRPG(maybe in other RPG's aswell)
« Reply #16 on: February 20, 2013, 11:29:39 pm »
+1
I like how people complain about players wearing good armor and don't think everyone should be able to wear the 'best' armor all the time, yet they want all weapons to be equally good, and they want every weapon to be as good as the best, which would also make everyone use the 'best' weapons.

Offline Malaclypse

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Re: Something is rotten in cRPG(maybe in other RPG's aswell)
« Reply #17 on: February 20, 2013, 11:40:46 pm »
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Yea, and in the meantime, you'll have another 3 LP. For 2 LP you will buy one masterwork item, and sell 1 loom point for 450K and continue to play in top gear.

This is assuming that he's comfortable playing with that much of a handicap to begin with, which is a pretty big assumption.

I like how people complain about players wearing good armor and don't think everyone should be able to wear the 'best' armor all the time, yet they want all weapons to be equally good, and they want every weapon to be as good as the best, which would also make everyone use the 'best' weapons.

It's not like I want every weapon to do the same damage, have the same speed, be the same weight and length- I'd just like for the lower tier ones to shine in SOME way other than cost, which doesn't matter. I think it would add a little spice if the "peasant" weapons were given say, extreme weight. They'd still be relatively low damage, slow, and often short weapons, but would have at least some benefit by way of not having to worry about being block stunned, and actually work towards block stunning others, supporting their team in a different way. They probably still wouldn't be used as often as weapons which are more likely to illicit 1-shots, but at least there would be a reason to use them beyond "I'm level 6 and/or poor".
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Offline San

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Re: Something is rotten in cRPG(maybe in other RPG's aswell)
« Reply #18 on: February 21, 2013, 03:37:19 am »
+1
Yeah..

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Offline Torp

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Re: Something is rotten in cRPG(maybe in other RPG's aswell)
« Reply #19 on: February 21, 2013, 06:49:32 am »
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the lower tier weapons usually have quite high speed which makes it easier to fight with the low wpf you have at low lvl - which is, of course, an advantage  - and in the period after retiring, you can't use higher tier weapons anyways due to strength requirements.
I still think it's good to have lower tier weapons, and feel like they work quite well at the moment... it also has to make some sort of sense realistically... i mean, it doesnt really seem very obvious that a 102 speed stick should suddenly have a weight-rating of 8

Offline Thomek

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Re: Something is rotten in cRPG(maybe in other RPG's aswell)
« Reply #20 on: February 21, 2013, 11:55:38 am »
+1
We will never get balance until we get capitalism factor into upkeep. Then perhaps upkeep will reflect the weapon power. 
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Offline Belatu

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Re: Something is rotten in cRPG(maybe in other RPG's aswell)
« Reply #21 on: February 21, 2013, 12:29:45 pm »
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Offline zagibu

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Re: Something is rotten in cRPG(maybe in other RPG's aswell)
« Reply #22 on: February 26, 2013, 03:22:01 pm »
+2
What Thomek said. Upkeep variance between weapons is too low. Weapon price and upkeep should depend on how many times an item is used. This would lead to more weapon diversity and a dynamic market.
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Offline Necrorave

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Re: Something is rotten in cRPG(maybe in other RPG's aswell)
« Reply #23 on: February 27, 2013, 07:16:51 pm »
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A lot of people forget the idea of how the weapon looks.  Sounds cheesy but hear me out.  Some hit boxes will differ due to the sword itself.  An arming sword is a bit wider and shorter.  Wider weapons are more likely to hit the target faster than a thinner one.  (Theory)

Also, shorter weapons can be very effective for a bunch of reasons.  If you are clusterd in enemies or allies, you won't team hit or bounce off a guy you were not trying to hit.

Side note, smaller weapons are harder to keep track of.  No matter if the speed is the same as a larger weapon.  Only a little harder, but its still something.

Offline Thomek

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Re: Something is rotten in cRPG(maybe in other RPG's aswell)
« Reply #24 on: February 28, 2013, 09:55:59 am »
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Exactly Necro. Weapon power is too complex, depends on too many factors including a constantly changing metagame, to be reflected in a static price.

That's why we only see a fraction of the weapons we have available actually being used on the battlefield.
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Offline Rebelyell

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Re: Something is rotten in cRPG(maybe in other RPG's aswell)
« Reply #25 on: February 28, 2013, 12:24:43 pm »
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Market destroyed crpg.

I liked cRPG a lot more before the market. You had to earn every gold in the game, you had to do three generations for your favorite weapon or favorite piece of equipment. It was not possible to play non-stop in the top expensive equipment (like 90% crpg players now), because upkeep will kill you .. etc.

In these days new player just need to go through 1 generation, sell loom point for 450K, and play 24/7 like this:
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As I said, I like mod much more before market.
inposibur to upkeep that even with 500k per 1 gen
but dosent change fact then we have way to much gold around
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Offline Joker86

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Re: Something is rotten in cRPG(maybe in other RPG's aswell)
« Reply #26 on: February 28, 2013, 07:06:34 pm »
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Market made the (already really bad) upkeep system ultimatively useless in terms of balancing player equipment.

- No equipment limitation
Upkeep system did not prevent the use of overpowered gear, it only limited the duration of that use. Doesn't remove the frustration when fighting an enemy with way superior gear. And if more players kind of "take turns" in going full geardo, you always have people who have superior gear, making them deadly and close to unkillable. The only advantage upkeep brought compared to before was lowering the percentage of those opponents, but that's it. The market took away even that.

- Bad design

It's an ugly system as you are always afraid of losing something, and you have constant fear of becoming less effective than before by losing too much money. Which is a backstep, and you should never experience backsteps in games. All of this only without a market. With a market look above.

- Low performance based reward factor
Your equipment and thus your performance and your fun are dependant on your team. And your team consists of the members of the cRPG community. Which means your fun is (partially) dependant on the cRPG community. Good god. The multiplier system is really bad, as the player is rewarded almost (!) independantly to his performance. And together with banner balance clan players are heavily favourised by such a system. Valour on the other hand is not a good thing as well, as it is related to the next point:

- Splitting the community
The gap between good and bad players is being increased even more. If a good players actually manages to influence the outcome of most rounds he plays, he can afford better equipment, which is a self fortifying effect, also applying to clan players in general. Being a clanless average player and a top of the notch clan player means two totally different gaming experiences.

- Bad for item balance

Due to the missing limitations by upkeep in combintion with the marketplace, balancing items is made much more difficult, and the choices get reduced for the players. There is no point in using cheap or cost-effective items, only those with the best statistics, which means that the item choice is reduced to a small range of items within an item class, which have about the same effectivity. And making most items have about the same effectivity makes the game more dull and plain.


It should be replaced by something which is more consistent, predictable, motivating and... working? My only idea was having an item value budget of what you can equip, and this value raises with your level and by increasing a certain wealth-skill. My point was to keep the characters at the same might level, and the only other thing next to equipment which determines this might (before player skill kicks in) are the character stats, so you have to balance one with the other. So if you want to play a heavily armoured knight on an armoured horse you are free to do so, but you will have a few less skill points spent in fighting skills, making you slower and/or less hard hitting than a player of the same level playing light cavalry. You have (more) balance there, it's more consistent, you don't have worries about losing, and it will most likely increase build variety. Upkeep more or less removed heavy cav from the game, which says enough about it.

But I would be happy with any other solution. Just remove the goddamn upkeep and multiplier system finally.
Joker makes a very good point.
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Offline Ronin

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Re: Something is rotten in cRPG(maybe in other RPG's aswell)
« Reply #27 on: March 01, 2013, 12:53:52 pm »
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Sorry for everyone not replying on their comments, especially you joker. I am too lazy to read much of the stuff at the moment. Apologizes.
I will just point out a small fact that I have realized, concerning item balance.

A lot of people forget the idea of how the weapon looks.  Sounds cheesy but hear me out.  Some hit boxes will differ due to the sword itself.  An arming sword is a bit wider and shorter.  Wider weapons are more likely to hit the target faster than a thinner one.  (Theory)

I believe weapon look is an important factor. But I don't think they do have different hit boxes or something like that. Their visual appearance make one thing different only, they can be easily spotted from which direction the attack comes. Which is an important factor.

To give you an example; try Sword of War first. Then try Danish Greatsword. You'll see your attacks with a Sword of War will get blocked more comparatively.
Same principle for the Steel pick + Huscarl Shield combination. The shield is big, and steel pick is very small. Therefore it is much harder to spot. Combined with the fast attacking speed of steel pick, it can be much more harder to block.
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Offline Necrorave

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Re: Something is rotten in cRPG(maybe in other RPG's aswell)
« Reply #28 on: March 01, 2013, 02:20:48 pm »
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I believe weapon look is an important factor. But I don't think they do have different hit boxes or something like that. Their visual appearance make one thing different only, they can be easily spotted from which direction the attack comes. Which is an important factor.

It was merely a theory.  No one really knows for sure except the people behind it, although I am making the assumption that weapons work that way.  It would make sense for weapons like axes and Bardiches.  Although, as I said.  It is just a assumption I made.

The ability to spot it is a factor, you are right.  Although, that kinda sides with the italian sword if you think about it.  It is thin and white.  Cut it down to 1 length and you have my penis.

Offline Joker86

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Re: Something is rotten in cRPG(maybe in other RPG's aswell)
« Reply #29 on: March 01, 2013, 02:23:19 pm »
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Cut it down to 1 length and you have my penis.

Your penis is long 1cm? I feel with you, man  :(
Joker makes a very good point.
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