The Rapier Build

[Mr Dinkywinky]

Ive tried this with a really high shield skill, and with really low and to be honest i prefer to put my points into more speed and maneuverability than defence. I guess its just me, i quite often put my buckler away for extra speed in duels (as I only use this in duels, since it is a pure rapier duelist build) which lets me get cheeky stabs in . As such I d`ont really feel the need for a high durability shield because as I said above you cant play this build in the "conventional" way. 

Wichcraft I would be happy to duel with you, Im usually on eu any eu duel server.

[TurmoilTom]

A nice build for thrusting one-handed swords is the Matey_BRD build.

(click to show/hide)

12 STR / 24 AGI

1 IF
4 PS
8 SHD, ATH, WM

172 1h WPF

The nice thing about this build is that if you hit level 31 and decide not to retire you can max out your ironflesh and go from there.

---

Also, if you prioritize speed and maneuverability over defence, another option is to copy my build.

(click to show/hide)

Level 30: 12 STR / 27 AGI

4 PS
9 ATH, WM

180 1h WPF

---

Level 35: 12 STR / 33 AGI

4 PS
11 ATH, WM

One leftover skill point

200 1h WPF

The thing I really like about my build (which I'm still working on, by the way) is that all of the extra shield weight that most one-handers have to put up with isn't there for me. Carrying only a short, light one-hander and light armor with high athletics turns you into a rocket.

[Bifi]

In my opinion high WM does not pay off.
Here's my Mr_Turtle build:

(click to show/hide)

Level 32: 12 STR / 33 AGI
4 PS
11 ATH,
1 WM
1 IF
120 1h WPF

[oprah_winfrey]

A nice build for thrusting one-handed swords is the Matey_BRD build.

(click to show/hide)

12 STR / 24 AGI

1 IF
4 PS
8 SHD, ATH, WM

172 1h WPF

The nice thing about this build is that if you hit level 31 and decide not to retire you can max out your ironflesh and go from there.

---

Also, if you prioritize speed and maneuverability over defence, another option is to copy my build.

(click to show/hide)

Level 30: 12 STR / 27 AGI

4 PS
9 ATH, WM

180 1h WPF

---

Level 35: 12 STR / 33 AGI

4 PS
11 ATH, WM

One leftover skill point

200 1h WPF

The thing I really like about my build (which I'm still working on, by the way) is that all of the extra shield weight that most one-handers have to put up with isn't there for me. Carrying only a short, light one-hander and light armor with high athletics turns you into a rocket.

The real question is, where are you going to put that one spare point of wpf?

Also, how far are you along now?

[Mr Dinkywinky]

Oprah I am honoured.

[oprah_winfrey]

Oprah I am honoured.

If you think so now...look under your chair.

[TurmoilTom]

The real question is, where are you going to put that one spare point of wpf?

Also, how far are you along now?

Still quite a ways off. I want to max out my gen exp bonus first, so I have to finish this gen and then I'll get into it. Also, I'm going to do a 12/27 swashbuckler this gen (so far only level 19, gen 15) to get a hang of it and fill out any flaws I find for the final product based on my experience with it, but it should be fine given the amount of time I've put into my STF for that build.

In my opinion high WM does not pay off.
Here's my Mr_Turtle build:

(click to show/hide)

Level 32: 12 STR / 33 AGI
4 PS
11 ATH,
1 WM
1 IF
120 1h WPF

It pays off if you're an agility build or have already gotten a fair amount of power strike.

(click to show/hide)

The damage multiplier formula is (1 + 0.08PS)(0.85 + 0.0015WPF)

With 4 PS and my planned 200 WPF I'll have a damage multiplier of 1.518.

If I sacrifice as much WM as I need to push my PS to 5 I'll end up with 144 WPF with 4 WM. That gives a damage multiplier of 1.4924.

Unless I'm somehow misinformed or there have been heavy changes since I last looked into it high WM *is* worth it, at least if you're already going for an agility build.

Source for damage multiplier formula: http://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php/topic,168722.msg4090900.html#msg4090900

Granted, I could drop WM entirely and push ATH even further for more speed bonus, but at 11 ATH I think I'll already be fast enough, especially in light armor with a one-hander.

[Bifi]

Thanks for clarifying Tom, but the difference is minimal.
Given 50 damage after the speed damage calculation:
It will give you 77,9 damage after wpf, ps and strength (raw_damage +=strength/5.0) is taken into account with your build.
If you go for 5 PS and 144 WPF, you will get 77,62 damage.

For 100 damage, which is quite a lot I guess, it would be 153,8 (your build) and 152,24.

With 15 strength you gain 3 more health points and can use any 1 handed weapon.

[CrazyCracka420]

Thanks for clarifying Tom, but the difference is minimal.
Given 50 damage after the speed damage calculation:
It will give you 77,9 damage after wpf, ps and strength (raw_damage +=strength/5.0) is taken into account with your build.
If you go for 5 PS and 144 WPF, you will get 77,62 damage.

For 100 damage, which is quite a lot I guess, it would be 153,8 (your build) and 152,24.

With 15 strength you gain 3 more health points and can use any 1 handed weapon.

You're talking damage only, I think the speed difference in swinging a 1h weapon is quite noticeable from under 100 WPF to 120.  And 2h's make a big difference going from 111 to 140.  I'd prefer to have as much speed on my swing as possible.

[Bifi]

Taken from the game mechanic megathread

(click to show/hide)

Melee swing speed
Weapon swing speed is affected by weapon speed rating and weapon profiency. Agility does not seem to have effect on swing speed. According to WaltF4's tests 100 wpf results in approximately ~6.5% faster swings.

To put this in perspective, a level 30 character with 3 agility, no weapon master, and 110 polearm proficiency would attack ~5% slower than a level 30 character with 27 agility, 9 weapon master, and 180 polearm proficiency if both characters were to use a speed 94 polearm. The absolute difference in time per attack between these two characters would be ~0.06 seconds. This is significantly less than the 12% difference in attack speed one would expect if agility was providing the purported 0.5% reduction in attack speed per point and the difference of 70 proficiency was ignored.

For rough calculation of your actual attack speed you can try to approximate a swing timer for wpf 1 from WaltF4's graph below and multiplying that by (1 - wpf / 100 * 0.065).
visitors can't see pics , please register or login
 

These numbers, however, are for a full swing from start to end. Actual combat in Mount & Blade involves hitting your enemy before the swing is completely finished, so all you can guesstimate from these really is comparable speed to other wpf-weapon setups.

(Source: http://forum.c-rpg.net/index.php/topic,2531.0.html, WaltF4)

The speed difference is hardly noticable and you get 120 wpf with only 1 WM at lvl 32

[CrazyCracka420]

Thanks for pulling that up, maybe it's just in my head then (i'd only be getting maybe a 2.5% increase in speed).

But one other thing I didn't mention (which I don't think is any data on the specific formula), higher WPF lowers your upkeep costs (not like that has any real bearing on someone's char build though)

[TurmoilTom]

Thanks for clarifying Tom, but the difference is minimal.

With 15 strength you gain 3 more health points and can use any 1 handed weapon.

I'll agree that it is a very minute difference, but I don't intend on using any of the higher tier one-handed weapons. I tend to use a Simple Sword, Winged Mace and Light One Handed Battle Axe normally and I've always been a fan of peasant weapons. Sometime this coming weekend I'll be looming up a one-handed Practice Sword.

Besides, if I went to 15 strength I wouldn't be able to reach 200 WPF. Can't have that, can I?

The speed difference is hardly noticable and you get 120 wpf with only 1 WM at lvl 32

Not gonna lie, swing speed doesn't even occur to me as something worth thinking about when I go over any of my build's WPF, heh.

Maybe the WPF rework that was promised back in August (and will likely come in 2024) will make it something worth considering.

But one other thing I didn't mention (which I don't think is any data on the specific formula), higher WPF lowers your upkeep costs (not like that has any real bearing on someone's char build though)

LOL WOW I totally forgot about that.

With all the peasant looms I'll be using I'll be raking in cash like nobody's business. 

[Tindel]

Weapon speed and wpf might not make a huge impact on swingspeed,  but it sure as hell helps blocking and feinting and in general moving around your weapon.

[oprah_winfrey]

Weapon speed and wpf might not make a huge impact on swingspeed,  but it sure as hell helps blocking and feinting and in general moving around your weapon.

Weapon speed and wpf do not effect blocking at all. A peasant with a wooden stick and 1 wpf has the same blocking capabilities as any other build in the game.

[Tindel]

Weapon speed and wpf do not effect blocking at all. A peasant with a wooden stick and 1 wpf has the same blocking capabilities as any other build in the game.

Get a weapon with 100speed or so, now get a weapon with 90speed or similar.

Fight a guy using a 100speed weapon, alternating between those two weapons. You will notice a huge difference when it comes to blocking feinting and getting off attacks.

Sure sure if you just stand and block it doesnt matter at all, but try to DO something and you will see what i mean.

With 100+ 2h wpf a longsword can go from attacking to a held blow and back to blocking without a problem against a longsword user.
Try doing that same manouver with a danish greatsword and you will not have time to block.

Weapon speed and wpf matters alot