Is archery nerfs fair? (Updated 03.05.2013)

[Belatu]

chadz said once that he practised archery irl XD

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So he has to be very bad at it XDDDDDDDDDDDD  (no hate chadzino  )

[Malaclypse]

And archery is UP, however it being buffed would be horrible.

Agreed. Get ready for some parenthesis. I usually get two shot, sometimes three or one shot (usually from speed bonus, sometimes not- plus 3 arrows/bow and randomish damage) by arrows in 40 body armor, which I feel is a reasonable value to play at regularly- neither too high or low but right around the middle available range, a bit above it. Maybe it's not as effective against higher armor values, and I feel the same pain with 6 PS. What it comes down to, and please excuse the tautology, is that ranged has the significant advantage of range- being able to attack and injure, suppress, or kill targets from a distance. That in itself justifies any shortcoming in comparative damage output between it and ground melee, at least.

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I think of course that if you pay the points for 8 Athletics you should be able to utilize it without dropping half or more of your equipment; arrows shouldn't weigh as much as a Great Maul. The issue with kiting appears two-fold.

Firstly: there wasn't and isn't a reason to go above 6 Power Draw; the returns in damage aren't enough to justify the loss of a smaller reticule and ability to run, so the standard archer build was 18STR/xxAGI.

Secondly- higher agility (24+, pref 27+) melee aren't seen as often as the opposite (24+ strength) as it's not especially fun to most people to ride the razors edge and die in one or two shots, so there is a shortage of melee who are/were capable of catching and killing fleeing ranged characters. Even though we do exist, we seldom live to round end due to our squishy nature... and this is of course when the most annoying kiting takes place, and where the other natural predator for kiting ranged, cavalry, is also often dead or dehorsed.

A better solution than increasing arrow weight would have been to incentivize both high agility melee builds and high strength/pd archer builds in some way (increase damage gains from PD beyond 6? add passive HP from AGI as well as STR? rework prof to draw from agi/WM instead of level/WM?), though it seems like the devs could make an easy fix by just adjusting weight values somewhat, tinkering with that until a balance is found. Maybe lower them, keeping them higher than their original values, say a solid 4 or 4.5 weight, and make them uniform across the board as now there's little reason to ever use Arrows, Barbed Arrows, or Tatar Arrows beyond cost (which is negligible for anyone who's been playing for awhile and isn't terrible with their gold).

[Torben]

this is just to put your post into perspective,  I agree that archery has been hit hard. but most classes have been nerfed a lot,  i am just throwing in some of them:

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Arhery Nerf List From Game Start:

• Bow damage reduce 1

lance damage reduced by 6 or so

• Bow damage reduce 2

  just about every melee weapon lost speed, damage, perks like stun

• Arrow speed reduce 1 (Killing fine-tuning 1 and reduce damage)

pikes lost overhead, voulge sideattacks, lance its angle

• Number of arrows reduced

huge speednerf, number of stabs reduced

• Slot system was introduced (Its bad only for ranged players

shielders need 1slot shields now,  pikemen need 1slot sidearms, cav either 1slot sidearm or no shield etc etc etc

• Bow weight increase 1

horse speed and maneuver nerfed

• Increase archery upkeep. Average horse archer upkeep 2,5k, archer upkeep 1,75k

yeah sucks

• Arrow weight increase 1
• Ladders remove from battle (Now archers the best choice for cav dinner)

cav is best choice for archer dinner ^^

• Arrow weight increase 2
• Jump shot removed (I guess because it is a sin according to their religion forbade, by taliban - because its illogical nerf)

kick block removed

• Arrow weight increase 3 (Now only one bag arrows 10.000 gr !!! i wonder how to fly this arows)(Real arrow weight max 50gr one, or its can't fly. (Pls use translate on this page: http://www.okyay.gen.tr/sayfa.asp?id=28 this page says arrow weight 15gr and this arrows used by Ottoman Army) (How 10.000 gr arrow omg) (A TINCAN CAN RUN FAST AND QUIET THAN ME! PLS ADD EXTRA SOUND FOR TINCANS!)
• Bow weight increase 2 (Horn bow was used from Turks and i have real Horn Bow in my home, its only 816 gr(With bag) not 2500 gr, its not steel...)
• Bow damage reduce 3 (Now its like s*it, i need 2 head shot for killing) (Power Draw: 8, I have: Horn Bow +3, Yumi Bow +3 Tatar arrow +3, Bodkin Arrow +3)
• Arrow speed reduce 2 (Killing fine-tuning 2 and reduce damage)

TURNRATE NERF

• Arrow damage reduce (Its really funny, now bodkin +0 give 0 pierce)
• Archer melee power reduced, my attacks bounced now. (Power Strike: 8)

sucks : /

• There's more, but I remember only this nerfs.

But two handers still crying like premature.

Summary: ARCHERY IS TOO HARD, TOO EXPENSIVE AND NOT FUNNY

Thanks for read.

[Abay]

As an infantry, I wouldnt like to see buffed archery but what I like is more realism in the game. So I can agree with OttomanSniper. Archery is the best fighting class in reality. It is like guns in medieval. Can u imagine attack a man who carries gun with a sword? Feel like that and stop trying to make classes equal.

P.s:

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I am gonna search something about shields and open a thread like this one. In general, shields are really strong but I cannot insist on it cos I have not much information about it for now.

[Torben]

As an infantry, I wouldnt like to see buffed archery but what I like is more realism in the game. So I can agree with OttomanSniper. Archery is the best fighting class in reality. It is like guns in medieval. Can u imagine attack a man who carries gun with a sword? Feel like that and stop trying to make classes equal.

P.s:

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I am gonna search something about shields and open a thread like this one. In general, shields are really strong but I cannot insist on it cos I have not much information about it for now.

well,  if wed talk reality,  most arrows should glanz off plate armor.

[Lennu]

I guess the archer nerfs were to make archery more skillbased. No matter how good 2hander or polearmer you are, ANY archer could just run from you and shoot you to death eventually in 1v1 situation   Hell, Any archer could do that to 3 2handers at once. Ofc, there is always "get a shield n00b!" answer, but you still couldn't catch the archer. So you still have no chance to win against him.
Now that they can't run anymore, the archer has 2 - 3 shots he can take before he needs to engage in melee, or drop his bow and arrows and run. Still, the melee guy has no chance on catching him, so the archer cannot lose this one either. Just make big circle and pick your bow again, get those few shots. repeat till you win.

Archers against cav is a bit different. If the map/surroundings give the cav player an advantage = archer has no cover. OR the archer has an advantage = he has some cover. Now the map decides how it goes.

[al_benz]

why did they nerf and not buff for balance?

[Gurnisson]

My Rus Bow +3 shots bounce on tincans some time. (8PD)

I need 2 hs for killing stumpter. 8PD and all equip+3

That's the sort of things that makes me not taking you seriously. Lies, lies and more lies

[Tzar]

I think we need to hand out Master lobbyist awards 

[bagge]

That's the sort of things that makes me not taking you seriously. Lies, lies and more lies

Like you melee people don't lie about damage from archers lol. Like, "urgh *crycrycry* TWO arrows kills my TINCAN11!11 *crycrycry*"

[OttomanSniper]

That's the sort of things that makes me not taking you seriously. Lies, lies and more lies

When u ready send me a pm, we can try this in duel server.

[Konrax]

I read most of the first page.

Skipped the second to throw in my 2c, just know that I am a shielder and have been since CRPG started.

I just want to say that I am very glad they made kiting as an archer more difficult, it honestly was a stupid mechanic that if anything was unintentional.

That being said, I also believe that bow damage in general is too low, and that projectile speed should be higher. Now that archers need to commit to their firing locations, they need to be better at actually making a difference in a battle. I've honestly felt bad for the damage reductions to bow for a while, but the kiting was really what the real issue was. Now that it has been relatively fixed, I think it's time to give archers their role back.

[Tears of Destiny]

No it isn't fair, but a lot of melee people are going to disagree with you just because they hate archers.

This... Oh god this...


This is brought up so many times that we should be able to buy dead horses in c-RPG... Why do people make these topics still, oh god, the humanity!

[OttomanSniper]

I capture this photos 10 min ago, perfect timing 

I got headshot and i lose only %50 hp

http://cloud-2.steampowered.com/ugc/595869894426781192/BDCFC9343FD525E5EFFBCEB4335117968558EF0E/
visitors can't see pics , please register or login

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http://cloud-2.steampowered.com/ugc/595869894426776804/438E65442D369B4BA20D531B0E379D79D2C042A8/
visitors can't see pics , please register or login

[FrugFrug]

Is archery nerfed harder on EU than NA? There is no way I would ever live a headshot from any type of arrow unless I was running full speed in the opposite direction of a peasant archer.

I also die in 1-3 shots with 58 hp and 38 body armor. (2 being the most common.)