Author Topic: Riding speed modified by gear weight  (Read 1628 times)

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Offline Commodore_Axephante

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Riding speed modified by gear weight
« on: February 14, 2013, 05:22:50 pm »
+9
It's come to my attention that gear weight has no effect on riding speed. It effects running speed, thus it should have the same sort of effect on horse speed, don't you think? Obviously the change would be more subtle, because well... it's a horse... but this would give more of an incentive (besides the financial one), possibly, for cav to use a light load-out instead of going plate charger. It would make light cav more of a unique class.

Thoughts?

Offline Joseph Porta

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Re: Riding speed modified by gear weight
« Reply #1 on: February 14, 2013, 05:26:53 pm »
+2
I dont think heavy armor on hb would reduce the speed noticeably, it should rather effect the stamina of the horse, but we dont have stamina for horses. Theyre go carts after all...
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Offline BlueKnight

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Re: Riding speed modified by gear weight
« Reply #2 on: February 14, 2013, 07:36:30 pm »
0
You have big belly and no armour = you are thin in armour. Horse doesn't give a fuck
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Offline Joseph Porta

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Re: Riding speed modified by gear weight
« Reply #3 on: February 14, 2013, 07:42:21 pm »
0
Surely an extra 35kg would cause SOME strain on the horse.  :|
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Offline Commodore_Axephante

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Re: Riding speed modified by gear weight
« Reply #4 on: February 14, 2013, 09:37:26 pm »
0
You have big belly and no armour = you are thin in armour. Horse doesn't give a fuck

The horse certainly does care. That's why people bothered breeding war horses (bigger, stronger horses that could support riders in all that armor).

Offline BlueKnight

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Re: Riding speed modified by gear weight
« Reply #5 on: February 15, 2013, 12:08:57 am »
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The horse certainly does care. That's why people bothered breeding war horses (bigger, stronger horses that could support riders in all that armor).
But how does your horse know if you weight 70 or 100kg? We can't assume that every char weights the same. And there comes armour so this 70kg guy in armour would weight as much as 100kg fat, nude rider. +female characters' weight? Are they lighter? They should be. Imho it's 2 small difference to change something in game.
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Offline Rhekimos

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Re: Riding speed modified by gear weight
« Reply #6 on: February 15, 2013, 12:13:30 am »
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I thought equipment weight already reduces the bonuses from riding skill, reducing speed and maneuverability.

Offline Commodore_Axephante

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Re: Riding speed modified by gear weight
« Reply #7 on: February 15, 2013, 12:19:24 am »
0
I thought equipment weight already reduces the bonuses from riding skill, reducing speed and maneuverability.

I assumed so, but apparently it doesn't.

But how does your horse know if you weight 70 or 100kg? We can't assume that every char weights the same. And there comes armour so this 70kg guy in armour would weight as much as 100kg fat, nude rider. +female characters' weight? Are they lighter? They should be. Imho it's 2 small difference to change something in game.

I'm talking about item weight, not character weight. And yes, we can assume that every char weighs the same, simply for the sake of design - it's what we do with infantry already. I mean, logically, your strength (and thus muscle-size) should increase your body weight and slow you down on foot, but also decrease your gear weight penalty as you can comfortably carry more, but we don't do it that way because it would complicate things.

My point is, there is a lot of nuance that isn't serviced by a simple linear speed-reduction-by-gear-weight equation, but CRPG has already adopted that system for infantry anyway, so why not for riders?


Offline BlueKnight

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Re: Riding speed modified by gear weight
« Reply #8 on: February 15, 2013, 12:24:10 am »
-2
So heavy riders on horses would be slower than light riders and it's realistic but when it comes to female chars on horses, they are supposed to weight as much as male chars? It ain't realistic. I don't know why you want to implement this to cav, it ain't going to change anything or help anybody and for sure it won't be more realistic and it's another stuff to be done by devs on their todo-list.

It's enough that horses' speed is affected by rain and uneven terrain makes more difference than any armour that you could wear while riding a horse. + weight of horse's armour is already taken into account and you can see it by stats.
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Offline Commodore_Axephante

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Re: Riding speed modified by gear weight
« Reply #9 on: February 15, 2013, 12:28:25 am »
+1
So heavy riders on horses would be slower than light riders and it's realistic but when it comes to female chars on horses, they are supposed to weight as much as male chars? It ain't realistic. I don't know why you want to implement this to cav, it ain't going to change anything or help anybody and for sure it won't be more realistic and it's another stuff to be done by devs on their todo-list.

It's enough that horses' speed is affected by rain and uneven terrain makes more difference than any armour that you could wear while riding a horse.

This certainly isn't a "nerf cav" thread - I'm just sharing an idea that I thought would make light-cav mean more than "i'm cav but I can't afford the big guns yet". Which, maybe it doesn't. But my main observation so far in this game is that there really aren't that many "classes", so anything that comes to mind that might offer some diversity, I'm going to share. I trust the devs to take it or leave it at their own discretion, and if i were to put money down, honestly I'd bet they would leave it. But, hell, might as well throw it out there.

Offline Zlisch_The_Butcher

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Re: Riding speed modified by gear weight
« Reply #10 on: February 15, 2013, 01:02:58 am »
+4
Guys fuck realism for two minutes here, it's a pretty good idea.
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Offline Malaclypse

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Re: Riding speed modified by gear weight
« Reply #11 on: February 15, 2013, 01:58:54 am »
+3
Make it so that in order to get the full benefit of Riding, just like Athletics, you're relegated to using quite light armor. Seems legit.
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Offline LordRichrich

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Re: Riding speed modified by gear weight
« Reply #12 on: February 15, 2013, 02:33:00 am »
0
Picture this:
You like to RP a typically heavy knight. Say a Templar, a Teuton, a Hospitallier, a French chivalric knight, a cavalry militia from an Italian city state.
So you spend a bugger load on armour (which lets you survive an extra hit than lighter mail), you soend an even larger bugger load on a horse, which if it's a destrier is useful, if it's a mailed horse, it's pretty bad. I mean, the destrier is JUST fast enough to dodge missles, but the armoured horses are pretty easy to hit (based on my experience as an xbow(mainly normal and arablest) archer (mainly longbow, but Rus bow recently) and as a cavalry player (destrier 90% of the time, but looting horses from dead riders) )
So you go slower than usual, meaning you and your horse are easier to hit, you do less damage and it's easier to get out of your way.

Personally, nerfing (and this is a nerf) heavy cavalry is a terrible idea.
Slightly off topic, but I'd like to see cavalry used like they were in real life. The Arabic and Saracen desert horses being lighter and not used for direct confrontation (ie, charges against massed infantry) and the typically western knightly class horses (ie, destrier and mailed horses) used for charges.
Currently, a head on charge with a destrier gets you ... killed. Even if it's versus non-ranged (which is very rare) or non-polearmers (which is also rare). Hell, even 2h's can stab your horses head before you get to them. I'd like to be able to do mass cavalry charges. Obviously they wouldn't be 100% realistic, else they'd wipe out near everything.

But here's an example: A while ago, on EU1, we were playing on the map that had the large bridge in the middle of a city. Quite similar to the map we still have on EU1 with the wooden bridge over the river with the forst on one side and a broken down caravan or prisoner cart on the other. Now, me and some other cavalry players decided we'd do a charge accross the bridge. I was on a destrier, there was a few GK's on destriers, a guy on a plated charger and a few lighter horses. There were maybe 8 all in all. We rode 4 or 3 abreast over the bridge, in close packed waves. I made it over once alive, the rest of the time we were slaughtered. It was fun, but it was kinda like "well fuck playing heavy cav, where's my courser?"

On another note: I'd like to see weight restrictions for horses. Ie, a plate armoured knight shouldn't be able to ride an arabian or desert or steppe horse, as they were lighter animals, and wouldn't last long with such heavy equipment (I know it's a stamina thing but still)


tl;dr - I disagreed. Suggested that heavy cavalry should be able to do frontal charges like they were designed for. Suggested weight restrictions on certain horses.

Offline Commodore_Axephante

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Re: Riding speed modified by gear weight
« Reply #13 on: February 15, 2013, 05:57:47 am »
0

...Personally, nerfing (and this is a nerf) heavy cavalry is a terrible idea....


I totally agree that nerfing cav is, like nerfing anything really, a bad idea. Cavalry should be more powerful than infantry. That's realistic and historically accurate, not to mention the fact that we're playing a game called mount & blade: warband. So, if everyone (especially people who have played/have a feel for cav) feel like this is merely a nerf, then can the idea.

But, for the record, we're talking about penalizing speed based on character equipment - the horse they're riding is irrelevant... it means that people who choose to wear the heaviest armor when riding would find their steed (whichever) less spry. If you died from a crossbow bolt on that bridge, I don't see how any horse or armor choice could have saved you - that's an armor/ranged balance issue, more than a question of horse speed, isn't it?

Offline LordRichrich

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Re: Riding speed modified by gear weight
« Reply #14 on: February 15, 2013, 06:50:32 am »
0
I totally agree that nerfing cav is, like nerfing anything really, a bad idea. Cavalry should be more powerful than infantry. That's realistic and historically accurate, not to mention the fact that we're playing a game called mount & blade: warband. So, if everyone (especially people who have played/have a feel for cav) feel like this is merely a nerf, then can the idea.

But, for the record, we're talking about penalizing speed based on character equipment - the horse they're riding is irrelevant... it means that people who choose to wear the heaviest armor when riding would find their steed (whichever) less spry. If you died from a crossbow bolt on that bridge, I don't see how any horse or armor choice could have saved you - that's an armor/ranged balance issue, more than a question of horse speed, isn't it?

Calvary only defence atm is speed sadly, you need it to be too hard to track and to get out of danger. Also, wearing heavy armour is more of a neccesity as cavalry, as the speed bonus works both ways.
I don't think I specified dying  to a bolt? I'm not sure, I'm tired. I died several ways, some ranged, some pikes, some 2h's etc. My point wasn't how I died, just how the heavy cavalry can't do its IRL role