Low riding skill

[Commodore_Axephante]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ro4yhp9L6Ok

I've seen people speak to this briefly, but I wanted a more specific conversation about low riding skill - is there such a thing as "light cav", as in, players who just dip into a little riding in order to have versatility on the battlefield, without fully committing their build to such horseplay? (see what I did there?)

My gen 1 Naked Hero is already a dedicated 2h with a tiny amount of throwing (4pt, 57wpf) which some people said was a useless investment, but I've already found that about 10% of my kills are thanks to my heavy throwing axes, and those kills are always timely/situational. So, while currently at lvl 28, I'm considering trying out a similar level of investment into riding with my last 2-4 levels.

We're talking about getting 3 riding, and just 3 riding, so I can use a Rouncey (which I will, as stated in another thread, re-model to look like Dethklok's Thunderhorse).

I mean, 2h riding is already a well established class, and I've already got the 2h... so, with 3 riding, will I be newly dangerous, or just a shitty version of the real 2h cav, desperately scrambling to keep up in a world of thundering hooves?

Thanks for your input!

PS: I'm not expecting to use the afformentioned small-scale throwing skill from horseback, but if I did, I would need Horse Archery, right? Also what's the deal with the Palfrey? I don't think I've ever seen one in-game.

[Zanze]

Most people that play cRPG themselves are useless investments. They try out throwing for a day, can't master it in that time, and then regard it as useless. The longer you throw, the higher that % of kills you get with throwing gets. Trust.

The problem with low riding skill is how slow and hard to maneuver the horse will be. I can't tell you too much on riding as I am a terrible horseman myself, but from what I learned from Diggles and Blackwhite... (Both great 1h and 2h cav respectively) You generally want at least 5 riding. Most lancers take 6 for coursers or so, and loomed horses are supposedly very great investments for riding.

[Ronin]

As a cavalry myself, I can share my opinions to you.

As a cavalry, riding is the most useful skill. It is even more useful than powerstrike. Riding increases horse manuever and horse speed. The things that define the cavalry.
This does not mean of course you should get minimum str for gear, and maximize the riding. While "maximizing the riding as much as possible tactic" is extremely viable, builds like 21/15 are viable too.

As a cavalry, your horse is your main weapon. Which means cavalry is more based on keyboard usage, than a mouse usage. Also this means that, if you are going to be a cavalry I think you should loom your horse first. Besides, looming a horse gives many benefits statistically.

"light cav"
Light cavalry's usefulness comes from being fast. As the riding skill increases speed too, low riding does not mean light cavalry. It is the opposite. Good light cavalry need to have a high riding in my opinion. To be fast, and to quickly evade arrows of course. Lightly armored horses can just take 1-2 arrows. You need to play your cards carefully to not get hit by the enemy ranged, and riding will help you a lot in this.


Those being said, with 3 riding you can only be a mounted infantry. Not a horseman or a cavalry. You won't even be a shitty version of cav.

[oprah_winfrey]

Most people that play cRPG themselves are useless investments. They try out throwing for a day, can't master it in that time, and then regard it as useless. The longer you throw, the higher that % of kills you get with throwing gets. Trust.

The problem with low riding skill is how slow and hard to maneuver the horse will be. I can't tell you too much on riding as I am a terrible horseman myself, but from what I learned from Diggles and Blackwhite... (Both great 1h and 2h cav respectively) You generally want at least 5 riding. Most lancers take 6 for coursers or so, and loomed horses are supposedly very great investments for riding.

Yeah, 5 riding is pretty sweet. Not only are the horses that you can ride pretty good, but also it gives you the ability to scavenge everything except courser, arabian, and desert horse (lol) off the battlefield.

[Dach]

I'd say go for it, yeah it won't be as efficient as a pure cav build but you will surely have fun with it and learn new thing! 

Small hint if you want to stay alive more often... if your horse get very low on hp, try to move clear on the enemies and get down and go back to infantry. Otherwise your going to die before you get back up a lot of time.

Also since your playing naked stay away for ranged that are aware of you, if you are riding toward them you will probably get one shotted. 

[Commodore_Axephante]

Does riding speed have nothing to do with gear weight?

[Dravic]

Riding speed has nothing to do with gear weight. You can be a tincan on a horse if you have the funds.

The higher the riding skill, the better the speed of riding and manouverability.

[CrazyCracka420]

3 riding can be a valuable investment as long as you aren't trying to ride around 1000's of meters from your infantry or you're going to get caught by someone who has faster riding and a lance and will kill your horse. 

As long as you are situationally aware and stay within retreating distance of your infantry, you should be fine.

Mind me asking you to post your current build so we can critique it?

[Commodore_Axephante]

Mind me asking you to post your current build so we can critique it?

Sure, if it would entertain you. Here's me at lvl 28. I was planning on just upping str and PA until 30 and 10, investing all extra skillpoints into stats so that this could happen sooner. However, I might change that plan slightly to get to 3 riding, as discussed.

With 57 wpf in throwing, I have literally the minimum amount to use / pick up heavy throwing axes and have no plans to invest further. My weapon of choice is the Great Axe.

The build:

Strength:25
Agility:12

Two Handed:127
Throwing:57

Weapon Master:4
Athletics:4
Power Strike:8
Power Throw:4

[CrazyCracka420]

You've already converted 8 skills to attributes, at level 30 you could be 27/12

But if you go 3 riding, you won't be able to go 9 power strike...

I'd probably skip on the riding, and just go 27/12, 9 PS, and 2 IF at your level 30 build, just my 2 cents

I'm guessing you were planning your build for level 31 (that's what I did on my first gen, not really thinking about the fact that I was going to retire at 31).  If you aren't planning on retiring, then I'd suggest going for 27/13 at level 31, 9 PS, 3 riding (on top of your current build).

Then at 33 you would be able to have 15 agility and could conceivably go 5 riding (but i'd probably stick with 3 riding, and go 5 athletics, and 5 WM)

[Commodore_Axephante]

You've already converted 8 skills to attributes, at level 30 you could be 27/12

But if you go 3 riding, you won't be able to go 9 power strike...

I'd probably skip on the riding, and just go 27/12, 9 PS, and 2 IF at your level 30 build, just my 2 cents

I'm guessing you were planning your build for level 31 (that's what I did on my first gen, not really thinking about the fact that I was going to retire at 31).  If you aren't planning on retiring, then I'd suggest going for 27/13 at level 31, 9 PS, 3 riding (on top of your current build).

Then at 33 you would be able to have 15 agility and could conceivably go 5 riding (but i'd probably stick with 3 riding, and go 5 athletics, and 5 WM)

Believe it or not, naive creature that I am, I'm not planning on retiring. Maybe ever. We'll see. But yeah, your projections for lvl 31 are one of the options I've considered - the riding option that this thread is meant to explore.

[rustyspoon]

On a side note, with just 1 point in ride you can whistle for horses.

I can't count the number of times I've noticed a riderless horse behind my opponent, whistled for it so it will come and knock my opponent over. It's always hilarious and useful.

Honestly, 3 riding is fine if you stay away from ranged, lancers and aware infantry.

[Macropus]

Honestly, 3 riding is fine if you stay away from ranged, lancers and aware infantry.

So basically it's only fine if you don't encounter any enemies at all


Honestly, I think you overrate the effectiveness of riding. It's not like you can simply ride over the battlefield bumpslashing archers and infantry from the back. Good infantry player is always aware, with 3 riding you won't even be able to dodge when you charge someone from behind and he suddenly makes a sidestep hitting (and most probably killing) you and your horse at once.
Riding a horse is more a "high risk - high reward" playstyle which often gets you hit or shot in the process, which seems to be not good for naked character who can't sustain hits. You'd want to have full control over your character, and with 3 riding you'd have not much of it.

just IMO. 

[rustyspoon]

So basically it's only fine if you don't encounter any enemies at all


Honestly, I think you overrate the effectiveness of riding. It's not like you can simply ride over the battlefield bumpslashing archers and infantry from the back. Good infantry player is always aware, with 3 riding you won't even be able to dodge when you charge someone from behind and he suddenly makes a sidestep hitting (and most probably killing) you and your horse at once.
Riding a horse is more a "high risk - high reward" playstyle which often gets you hit or shot in the process, which seems to be not good for naked character who can't sustain hits. You'd want to have full control over your character, and with 3 riding you'd have not much of it.

just IMO. 

Even the best players can't watch 360 degrees at all times. He just needs to wait for someone to get distracted, ride up and hit them.

Also, even with 3 riding he's not going to be hurting for maneuverability. With 3 riding, he's going to be slow. (compared to other cav) The more your speed increases, the more it hurts your maneuverability. Even if you increased the maneuverability on a courser it's still going to turn like a bus when you go full speed.

Since he'll be so slow, he'll have a hell of a time sneaking up on anyone. That's why he'll have to go after people who are distracted first.

[Gurnisson]

3 riding is pretty much a waste of skill points.