Shortswords

[Don_Montega]

Hybridising helps aye,
but lets focus on the topic plz.

It is merely a proposition of a more viable and realistic slot system for shortswords,
a classic sidearm of medieval times.
Making it require a slot is really
making it an ugly compromise, as
there are by far better weapons.

[Jarlek]

All shortswords got beneath 30 cut damage, no more than 26 stab damage and are no longer than 86 reach...

I got no problem with making them 0 slot.

Voted for "Give us a better slot system". More 0 slot 1h. Get some 2 slot 1hs too. More 1 and 3 slot polearms and 2handers.

[Piok]

155th topic about buffing melee of archers.
Agiwhores are also class why to nerf them by buffing their pray?
Yes we want to fight not to kite. Where I heard this?
And after all that adjusting pure archers, throwers and xbows  kite as senseless.
Only thing that force them not to kite is going out of ammo.

As I said just another undeserved buff for ranged 

[Don_Montega]

You sir,
are neither giving any argument,
nor any input,
so please

bring out arguments,
or constructive criticism.

Every playstyle has his negative players,
never forget that.

[Piok]

If only argument you are waiting for is +1 for 0 slot shortsword then yes I do not give any argument.

[Don_Montega]

*sigh* No i do not await that you have to like this suggestion.
But not all ranged or hybrid players kite,
or would kite if given a proper equipment option.

also it would add historical builds as said multiple times before.

The pure option of, in your opinion i think, exploiting this gift,
did never prevent other players from exploiting other "gifts"
or mechanical Problematics.

If a player decides to play a solemnly specialized playstyle,
like an agility based charcter who relies on speed,
that build HAS to have BIG weaknesses in order to balance it.

A hybrid tries to compensate these weaknesses with versatility.

Atmo i use xbow shield shortsword n steelbolts,
i do not expect to be effective in melee against a
specced char, or in range against a specced archer.
But i expect a fair balance and some chance of fighting
them in their territory.

It still is rewarding getting a kill,
or shielding an ally.

Overall i am an assister
that does not understand,
why this mod does not let you play an assisting
role with a little specialization
(like having a 2 slot xbow with a shortsword, or an xbow and a 2slot shield).

Without having to rely on exploiting hugging and stabbing
with quick rondels, by becoming an "agiwhore" myself.
Since i am weaker in this role,
by having to spend my points
in several "areas".

[Piok]

Problem is that "pure" builds ruin this game

[Jarlek]

Problem is that "pure" builds ruin this game

And what has that to do with shortswords being pretty useless right now? They need something to make themselves stand more out. 104 speed doesn't matter for shit when you do shit damage and have shit range.

Personally I would like them to get more damage, both stab and slash. No matter how much they do, it's still cut on swings and 80ish reach.

[Piok]

Because they make hybrid almost useless.
Hybrids don't whine so often cos they adapt

[Jarlek]

Because they make hybrid almost useless.
Hybrids don't whine so often cos they adapt

I almost always play hybrids. Still see no reason to take the shortswords.

When I was 1h/pole/shielder I never even considered the shortswords. Why take an 80 reach sword over a 100 reach with more damage? Or over the 80 reach military hammer that has more blunt damage than ANY of the shortswords cut damage? I even had a loomed huscarl I sometimes used with a warpear. That meant 0 slot 1h. Most of the time I didn't bother taking a 1h then, with the exception of daggers (cause daggers are cool).

When I was 1h/Archer I never considered using the shortswords. Taking another sword with up to 6 more cut, 20+ length for the cost of 2 thrust damage and up to 5 speed? Not needed.

When I was 1h/Archer/shielder I used the 0-slot buckler for the most part. That buckler is a good example on how the slot system can be better for hybrids. Sure, it's not as good as the other shields, but with enough shield skill and some tactical thinking, it can more than stand it's own. Sometimes I took a 0 slot 1h instead of the buckler and went dagger/shield as sidearm. Wouldn't it be better for hybrids if they could get a better sidearm?

When I was 1h/crossbow I never needed 2 stacks of bolts anyway so I only had a 0 slot dagger for looks anyway.


I get what your complaint is. The pure archers/xbows would then start using the shortswords over the daggers. That's ok. That means those archers do NOT want to just run away from melee. These are the archers that are actually willing to get PS, thus being hybrids. The runners just want something to block with, and there the wooden stick is better than the shortswords, even if they both were 0 slot.

[Zanze]

Stabbing as it is is horribly hard to land, and if ye land a stab most time it doesnt deal significant damage...

So even with PS5 (as i have it atmo) and a broad short sword, you need to stab your foe 4-5 times before he drops.

Shortswords have a very nice sweet spot for stabbing, though, I may think that only because I have been a spearman for almost 10 gens now and am use to it.

However, giving them 2-3p damage extra to their stab brings them on par with most spears(At half or a third the length). Currently, most S.Swords sit at 26p; Except Scottish at 27. 28-30p for an unloomed short sword is very strong for their price. (For comparison, a war spear has 28p, a light lance 27, and an ashwood pike has 30. I name these spears because all can be used alongside shields)

To add personal experience to the issue, I rarely take more than 3 hits to drop someone using a +3 Light Lance at 30p with a shield. I also personally bring with me a short sword as a sidearm with 5wpf into one handed. It gives me the opportunity to attack from 3 extra directions while keeping the stab as my main attack.

[Kafein]

Fact : the 0 slot hammer is a better all around weapon than almost any short sword (not counting stabless beasts like the pasta cutter). I tested it, knockdown is invaluable.

[Piok]

If only long dagger will get ability to block

Poor man's shortsword