A case for the 20% upkeep

[Formless]

Did he just say a case for the 20% upkeep?  Is he serious?

Yes, I am serious.  I think the 20% maintenance fee for the losing team was a great idea.  I think going with a 5% maintenance random penalty for winners or losers is a bad idea and is simply a random money sink.
The reasons why I liked the 20% upkeep are probably the same reasons chadz created the patch in the first place:

1.)  Controlled the tincan population
2.)  Forced players to work together as a team
3.)  Get rid of overpowered players
and partly:
4.)  Forced high level wealthy players to care about the outcome.

Recently in another thread I came across this quote:

If you are level 30 and have all your eqiup (with easy upkeep now) it doesn't really matter. At least my motivation to win rounds is like before the patch... I don't care.

And its true, why would a 30 level player with all his equipment care if his team wins or loses?  Since the 5% maintenance fee is now random and not linked to winning. 

If  a 30 level player has all his gear and has reached the level cap, he does not care at all if his team wins or loses since he already has all the experience points he needs and has all the gear that he needs, so he does not care about the gold.  The 5X muliplier for xp or gold will sway him not at all.   So his motivation to help the team and work as a team is gone.   

Also I suspect that the 5% random maintenance fee will not be enough to cut down the population of tincans.  Sure it will help a bit, but I believe that most people will wear their plate most of the time now.

A 20% maintenance fee linked to winning or losing makes more sense to me. 
1.)  It forces the whole team to work together to try to avoid losing.
2.)  Forces players to cycle between plate and low level armour thereby cutting down on the tin can population.

The only problem with the 20% maintenance fee was that people started to take off armour when on a losing team to avoid paying maintenance on it.  To solve this simply make it so that if a player gets a kill that round even when on a losing team he will not pay maintenance.  This will reward skill at arms.  And this way people will continue to wear armour and other expensive gear as they will want to get a kill and thereby avoid paying maintenance. 

What do you all think?

[Tornkik]

I really don't care about the amount, I just hate it being random. They need to base it on some factor, ANYTHING that affects upkeep.

[Goretooth]

15 sounds good

[Tristan]

Both teams suffer maintenance. Just more than 5%... its not enough. At least 10%!

[Vicious666]

ppl not understand that upkeep is      only  a bad  implementation becouse with this new exp system



ppl unwear theyr stuff if they are clearly on the bad side,  while others wear theyr uber staff.

making the game boring,  unbalanced. and stupid at all.

together with no more meaning on    leveling char. since we are all around 30.


crpg lost 90% of his sense


and for all ppl who say bla bla bla,  equip is not skill,         90% of this ppl is the same ppl who where in plate lev 40,     and played a grind game based  mainly on lev+equip than skill.

if we wanna this game based purely on skill,      lets make that only who kill  get xp and gold.    and lose it when die,  or stop talk about this bullshit.     

now cprg is pretty much similar to     native.    after 2 day you need to do 1-30

[Cyclopsided]

I vouch for the 20% upkeep.
Formless has a pretty good proposition regarding kills lessening it, too. Although i think just a small gold reward for killing is what you mean, to make the repairs easier to manage if you are pulling your weight.

The hotfix is bad. You do not listen to the complainers IMMEDIATELY AFTER A PATCH. YOU HAVE TO WAIT AND SEE WHERE IT GOES AND WEIGH THE OPTIONS. lessening upkeep and making it random was such a bad move.

[The_Bloody_Nine]

the more I play I think upkeep is an ingenius implemantation!

but I also rather don't like the hotfix.

[Bull]

Start the flame wars, but I don't think the hotfix is bad at all. I do think that 5% might be too low in the long run, but given time, chadz will figure out what it needs to be.

Besides, can it *really* be true that people don't care about winning, if there's no deterrent/penalty? I feel like that's silly to believe otherwise; when I'm out there, my goal is to kill as many as possible and win the round, no matter what's at stake.

And to those who rebuke chadz for listening to "complainers"... well, you're complaining now, so by your own logic, he should ignore your comments ;)

[Stokes]

The hotfix is bad. You do not listen to the complainers IMMEDIATELY AFTER A PATCH. YOU HAVE TO WAIT AND SEE WHERE IT GOES AND WEIGH THE OPTIONS. lessening upkeep and making it random was such a bad move.

Using this logic, we must also wait before we judge how the 5% hotfix will change things, weighing the options and "seeing where it goes".


By my pure speculation, however, it should lessen the problem of the loosing side all dropping their armor, since they now have an equal chance of losing their equipment on the winning or loosing side. I think it works out.

[Mesmer]

I don't care about how high is the cost of repair.

But 4% chances (earlier 3%) is not working. Someone tell me how the hell is this possible, that after every round that my team failed I got something damaged. In 1 lost round i have my personal record 4 damaged items. In every lost round I have something damaged. This is out of statistics.

I'm just pissed. Now when you have chance to get something damaged even when you win I got it every time. I played 3 rounds. 2 won 1 lost. 5 damaged items. WTF

[Ishar]

Both teams suffer maintenance. Just more than 5%... its not enough. At least 10%!

This. I think 20% might be a bit too much, but 5% is nothing. I think something in the range of 10-15% would be good, but with this system I can use my Huscarl, my heirloomed NCS and two stacks of heavy throwing axes all the time, and still make quite a lot of money. True, my armor is made of paper, but still: that's a lot of top-tier equipment imo.
And yes, punish the losing team with the damage chance, to give the dumbasses some reason to fight properly, exactly why OP said.

[verinen]

I think 10% is best cost.

[Cyclopsided]

Using this logic, we must also wait before we judge how the 5% hotfix will change things, weighing the options and "seeing where it goes".


By my pure speculation, however, it should lessen the problem of the loosing side all dropping their armor, since they now have an equal chance of losing their equipment on the winning or loosing side. I think it works out.

Yes, he can't change it again until atleast a week. Otherwise we won't see how this does fully.

[Beans]

Yea, the new cost is so low it doesn't create the desired outcome of not letting people constantly use the best gear unless their own a town.

[Salamol]

At the end of the day, adjusting upkeep is merely going to create a budget.

There will be a winners budget and a losers budget, though most will pick a budget in the middle.

This budget will be based on the repair costs and chance that the item will break. I'm not going to do the math but it's not difficult to work out a formula.

Whatever the budget comes to is the collective price of what we will see the players wearing, the majority of players.

As we have seen over the last couple of days, a low/zero upkeep will encourage heavy armor and heavy cavalry. We've also seen people freak out and go naked because they feel the upkeep is too high.

The actual figure of the upkeep is trivial, because it's still going to ecourage people down a certain path.