Author Topic: A few thoughts on the new gen xp bonus and heirlooms  (Read 3140 times)

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Offline Punisher

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A few thoughts on the new gen xp bonus and heirlooms
« on: April 29, 2011, 01:41:17 pm »
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So the long-awaited patch finally came and from all the ideas about containing heirlooms/generations that were floating around, it was chosen to reduce gen xp bonus to 3%. In my opinion this solves nothing, and it just hits the lower generations the most, just like the old heirloom theft did. Everyone who wants to be competitive will need to grind a lot more then before to get heirlooms. Instead of discouraging it, the gen xp bonus reduction will encourage grinding as with heirlooms being a lot harder to get, they will be even more valuable and obviously people who abused the retirement system and got dozens of heirlooms are the most advantaged.

A much better solution to control heirlooms would be introducing a maximum number of heirloomed items that can be equipped at the same time (2 or 3 items). This way, grinders can keep grinding and retire as many times as they want, but they will only have a wider selection of heirlooms available, while only being able to use the same number or heirloomed item simultaneously as the average player.

The only way to make it fair no matter what solution for limiting generations/heirlooms is chosen would be reseting everybody to generation 1 and removing all heirlooms so we all start with equal chances in the new system. But since chadz doesn't want another wipe this will probably never happen.

So, if the current gen xp bonus system stays, considering the massive changes brought by this patch (not only balancing changes, but also the slot system that makes many old builds impossible and the very long time that will now be needed to get new heirlooms) at least a heirloom reset is in order for people to be able to adjust their builds to the new changes.
« Last Edit: April 30, 2011, 08:05:43 pm by Punisher »

Offline Tydeus

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Re: A few thoughts on the new gen xp bonus and heirlooms
« Reply #1 on: April 29, 2011, 03:12:18 pm »
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I somewhat agree with what you've stated here, but I'm not going to sit and bold each individual statement I like/dislike.

So first, what's the difference between a gen 10 and a gen 50? Aside from the collection of Masterworks that they have to choose from, nothing. What I mean by this is that after a certain point, having heirloom after heirloom no longer grants any benefits on the field. If I have 5 masterworked weapons 3 chest armors light/medium/heavy gloves and a horse, assuming I'm NOT a cav, I can only use three of those ten masterworks at a time. So even though someone is gen 31 and I'm only gen 10, we're both probably wearing the same number of loomed items, at this point, looming more items just allows the individual player more freedom with each gen.

That's what I don't see people focusing on and this is what's been most important when I talk with people on the servers that are gen 10+ like me. The ability to have a repertoire of items to choose from, the ability to go cavalry instead of Two-Hander or Sword and Board with each gen, and be just as effective as you were previously is what we don't want to lose and it's what is most important. Kesh has stated it on the forums as well as Goretooth and I know other people agree with this: It's no mere coincidence that the people who are high gen don't play the game because they're sadistic and enjoy the grind, they play because it's legitimately fun, and part of that fun is not being confined to one build.

People have argued that you can just make an alt if you're tired of your current build. But that's like changing your phone number or creating a new e-mail/aim/yahoo/msn name, you lose contacts. No one knows who the hell you are anymore. This game has a pretty tight knit community and playing on an alt is like playing for your first time, no one knows who the fuck you are. And why should someone have to create a new character when they've put hundreds(literally hundreds) of hours into the one they already have, that's like throwing all of your hard work out the window.


The only way to balance this issue, is to make it easier for the have nots, to have. For example: cutting the total xp needed for every level by 30-50%. So with a 50% reduction it would be 4.35 million xp total to level 31. This would make everyone level twice as fast and making it feel much less "grindy" to lower gen people. This would allow you to keep the 30xp per gen(though I'd suggest 50xp and remove the cap) and probably make everyone happy.

Of course this would increase the total number of heirloomed items in the game, but people can only equip so many loomed items to begin with. There isn't really any point to loom boots or helmets so what you get at high gens (10+) is a bunch of people looming things that they won't always be able to use, things that only increase the players individual versatility and not battlefield effectiveness.

Long story short: I'd rather level fast than have trillions of heirlooms.
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Offline cmp

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Re: A few thoughts on the new gen xp bonus and heirlooms
« Reply #2 on: April 29, 2011, 04:46:12 pm »
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Err, it's capped.

Offline Punisher

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Re: A few thoughts on the new gen xp bonus and heirlooms
« Reply #3 on: April 29, 2011, 04:47:06 pm »
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Err, it's capped.

Where is the cap? Since I am only gen 9 I had no idea about it.

Offline Chagan_Arslan

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Re: A few thoughts on the new gen xp bonus and heirlooms
« Reply #4 on: April 29, 2011, 04:58:19 pm »
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Where is the cap? Since I am only gen 9 I had no idea about it.

its capped at 1450 base xp i think

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Re: A few thoughts on the new gen xp bonus and heirlooms
« Reply #5 on: April 29, 2011, 05:16:04 pm »
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45%

Offline NuberT

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Re: A few thoughts on the new gen xp bonus and heirlooms
« Reply #6 on: April 29, 2011, 05:31:49 pm »
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This really sucks and the game is closer to native were people dont want it . Seriously there is no more real reasen to play as heirlooming is almost worthless +1 damage/gen and high levels are not reachable. Why would a new player retire if there is no real benefit. With the current system I see no bright future for the mod, simply because people have nothing to do....

The best might be 50k/gen with 1500k at x1 and no cap of course

btw. I like the rest of the features ^^

Offline Tydeus

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Re: A few thoughts on the new gen xp bonus and heirlooms
« Reply #7 on: April 29, 2011, 05:33:44 pm »
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This new system will do nothing except recreate the separation between those who play a lot and those that don't, except this time, it'll be worse. You can easily see this by doing some simple math. Let's say the Have's are those with a weapon, chest armor and gloves triple loomed. That means you're gen 10.

So considering:
Total XP required to hit level 31 hasn't changed
XP bonus from retirement drastically lowered

That can only mean that you have to put more time into the game to get gen 10 than you did before. This will only widen the gap between the haves and the have nots by making heirlooms harder to get in general. There really to get around this unless you make heirlooms unrelated to time played.

Maybe make it so you have to participate in tournaments and place to get looms as well as get looms for holding locations in strategus.
« Last Edit: April 29, 2011, 05:35:12 pm by Tydeus »
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Offline NuberT

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Re: A few thoughts on the new gen xp bonus and heirlooms
« Reply #8 on: April 29, 2011, 06:25:56 pm »
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This new system will do nothing except recreate the separation between those who play a lot and those that don't, except this time, it'll be worse. You can easily see this by doing some simple math. Let's say the Have's are those with a weapon, chest armor and gloves triple loomed. That means you're gen 10.

So considering:
Total XP required to hit level 31 hasn't changed
XP bonus from retirement drastically lowered

That can only mean that you have to put more time into the game to get gen 10 than you did before. This will only widen the gap between the haves and the have nots by making heirlooms harder to get in general. There really to get around this unless you make heirlooms unrelated to time played.

Maybe make it so you have to participate in tournaments and place to get looms as well as get looms for holding locations in strategus.

There is no more reason to retire in 4 weeks everyone will be lvl 30-34

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Re: A few thoughts on the new gen xp bonus and heirlooms
« Reply #9 on: April 29, 2011, 06:34:43 pm »
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I actually like the idea of an xp cap for high gen people, it makes sense.  Would have liked it a more even number just for aesthetic reasons like 1500 or 2000, but I don't think the low gens should be punished, hard enough as is for gens 2 and 3, should just keep it at 10% if you are going to cap it anyway.  Also, the people calling for a database wipe, seriously thats lame and would make it ten times the grind it ever was, especially for new players.  Overall the patch is a great idea, glad the work was put into it, obviously some small tweaks and bug fixes are needed, but the rage going on right now is the craziest I've ever seen and the only legitimate anger I've seen is people losing their Long espada eslavona (easy bug fix) and cavalry who have had their whole class substantially changed in how its done. 
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Re: A few thoughts on the new gen xp bonus and heirlooms
« Reply #10 on: April 29, 2011, 10:03:52 pm »
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I actually like the idea of an xp cap for high gen people, it makes sense.  Would have liked it a more even number just for aesthetic reasons like 1500 or 2000, but I don't think the low gens should be punished, hard enough as is for gens 2 and 3, should just keep it at 10% if you are going to cap it anyway.  Also, the people calling for a database wipe, seriously thats lame and would make it ten times the grind it ever was, especially for new players.  Overall the patch is a great idea, glad the work was put into it, obviously some small tweaks and bug fixes are needed, but the rage going on right now is the craziest I've ever seen and the only legitimate anger I've seen is people losing their Long espada eslavona (easy bug fix) and cavalry who have had their whole class substantially changed in how its done.

+1, every bit of it
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Re: A few thoughts on the new gen xp bonus and heirlooms
« Reply #11 on: April 29, 2011, 10:24:57 pm »
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I think the whole idea was good, but i would like to see these numbers instead:
- Generation bonus for each retirement +50 exp
- Exp bonus cap +100%
Would seem fair IMO.
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Offline Ramsay

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Re: A few thoughts on the new gen xp bonus and heirlooms
« Reply #12 on: April 29, 2011, 11:29:08 pm »
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+1 Punisher & NuberT   - after few more "rpg experience" patches we'll just end up playing native with stupid looking armor sets and merp-derp faces. Noobies are noobies and I remember being one. You could give me a masterwork lolstaber and full lordly tincan and I would still get more deaths than kills in first few weeks. So what's the point in nerfing veterans to a peasant level?

Not only that but now there is no reward for being a veteran. I'm gen 8. If I would delete it and start a new character this is what I get:

- Same gold (don't get me started on team balance and random team swapping)
- 210xp less per tick? (a joke)
- 3 dmg less (on my masterwork 2h sword)  :cry:

I know, I know... I play for the experience and not for grind but I mean c'mon the rpg part is there for a reason.

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Re: A few thoughts on the new gen xp bonus and heirlooms
« Reply #13 on: April 30, 2011, 01:03:08 am »
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What's more important, 2 damage on a weapon for an heirloom, or 3 levels and 1 power strike? I promise you levels play more of a role in someone's effectiveness than heirlooms do. Yet with crap XP it takes everyone forever to even hit level 30. It's an rpg though, there should be some sort of a grind, but that comes when you go above level 31 and successive retirements.
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Re: A few thoughts on the new gen xp bonus and heirlooms
« Reply #14 on: April 30, 2011, 04:34:41 am »
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I just registered to this forum to complain about the Generation Experience Bonus Nerf

As a generation 11

I used to make 10,000 per tick

now only 6,500  :cry:

Worst nerf in history
no point in retiring anymore
not even for the heirloom

after a couple months, you're going to start seeing players hit 33, and 36, and so forth

This Experience Nerf will do more to separate the gap between casuals and die hards than any other change to C-RPG you've ever seen.

Because more and more players will definitely stop retiring.

Personally, I'm already considering not retiring the next time I hit 31. (50/50)

« Last Edit: April 30, 2011, 04:41:56 am by Spook Island »
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