Preliminary Test of New Polearm Thrust

[Rhaelys]

I was in the duel server with Tydeus, and tested the range of the new polearm thrust against the range of the two-handed thrust.

Tydeus was using a German Greatsword, with a range of 123.

I used a Shortened Spear, with a range of 120.

We assessed range by initiating a thrust attack against the other's down block. Tydeus thrusted against my down block until he was just on the threshold of still being in range. Without either of us moving, I then used the new polearm thrust against his down block. Even with a base -3 range, the Shortened Spear easily made contact with Tydeus' down block. In addition, I was able to move back just a tad bit farther away and still make contact with his down block.

From this preliminary test, it seems that the new polearm thrust animation is longer than the two-handed thrust animation by at least 3, but on a estimate probably closer to 8-10 reach.

[ManOfWar]

Good work men, we must patch this patch before it fucks everything to hell

[Turkhammer]

What's the problem?  A spear should out range a sword.  Damned sword whores.

[Joseph]

What's the problem?  A spear should out range a sword.  Damned sword whores.

Remember that in this game, Spear means Polearm.
All the weight of a Polearm is on it's tip, so it's heavy,
Most of the weight of a Sword is on the handle, so it's lighter.

[Tungsten]

What's the problem?  A spear should out range a sword.  Damned sword whores.

Because the sword has higher base range than the spear? If you make a short spear, it shouldn't automatically gain ghost reach because it's a spear and has a better animation when the thrust on both would be pretty much the same.

[MrShovelFace]

Remember that in this game, Spear means Polearm.
All the weight of a Polearm is on it's tip, so it's heavy,
Most of the weight of a Sword is on the handle, so it's lighter.

that being said the way you hold a sword gives u absolute 0 leverage where as one can swinging with the polearm animation in real life is easy compared to the purely fictional way of using many of the giant two handed swords

realism does not help that arguement. Polearms have mechanical advantage

[Cyclopsided]

I LOVE THE NEW POLE ARM ANIMATION

[Joseph]

that being said the way you hold a sword gives u absolute 0 leverage where as one can swinging with the polearm animation in real life is easy compared to the purely fictional way of using many of the giant two handed swords

realism does not help that arguement. Polearms have mechanical advantage

This is not realism, it's some logic.

[WaltF4]

We assessed range by initiating a thrust attack against the other's down block. Tydeus thrusted against my down block until he was just on the threshold of still being in range. Without either of us moving, I then used the new polearm thrust against his down block. Even with a base -3 range, the Shortened Spear easily made contact with Tydeus' down block. In addition, I was able to move back just a tad bit farther away and still make contact with his down block.

That is not a very accurate way to test reach as the distance the weapons travels between objects is different for attacks made at different angles. I think it is better to have one person attack a fixed target with both weapons using a fixed camera angle.

But, yes, the new twohanded polearm thrust animation is significantly longer relative to the twohanded weapon thrust animation. The length 117 practice longsword thrust now has less reach than the length 120 shortened spear twohanded thrust. Previously, the practice longsword longsword thrust had more reach than the length 182 scythe. The twohanded weapon thrust seems to have been changed as well, so I am not sure how the two thrust animations compare to the side swings, overhead swings, and one handed weapons attacks. I will do more testing once I retire and get enough strength to hold weapons again

[Rhaelys]

That is not a very accurate way to test reach as the distance the weapons travels between objects is different for attacks made at different angles. I think it is better to have one person attack a fixed target with both weapons using a fixed camera angle.

But, yes, the new twohanded polearm thrust animation is significantly longer relative to the twohanded weapon thrust animation. The length 117 practice longsword thrust now has less reach than the length 120 shortened spear twohanded thrust. Previously, the practice longsword longsword thrust had more reach than the length 182 scythe. The twohanded weapon thrust seems to have been changed as well, so I am not sure how the two thrust animations compare to the side swings, overhead swings, and one handed weapons attacks. I will do more testing once I retire and get enough strength to hold weapons again

I agree, which is why it was a preliminary run. I'll modify my original conclusion to account for this potential inaccuracy. Here's to hoping you will be able to procure an accurate measure of the new thrust animation.

[ManOfWar]

Walt, this is why you have 95 awesome points! And also to Tydeus and Rhaelys for their hard work as well, Cheers!

[MouthnHoof]

From this preliminary test, it seems that the new polearm thrust animation is longer than the two-handed thrust animation by at least 3, but on a estimate probably closer to 8-10 reach.

That is balanced.
An under 10 difference in effective reach due to animation is as good as you can hope for. Especially when we are dealing with weapons of typical reach stat of 120 (2H) or more (poles), this is in the single digit % difference. If any small bias exists, it is better to have a small + on the polearms side. Also, remember that most 2H swords have a polearm secondary mode and have access to this animation (and with thrust damage higher than almost all polearms).

What about MINIMUM range?
The good thing about the native pole thrust is that it starts the animation from pulling way back. It gave poles a better minimum effective rage, which is important vs. face huggers. The 2H thrust does not have a problem with short range glances, how about the new pole thrust?

[Punisher]

Is it just me or the new polearm thrust is a lot faster then the old one? It feels even faster then the old 2h thrust animation, but I only have 1 WPF so can't really test it properly.

[Corrado_Decimo]

mass reroll to polearm. now clearly polearm->2h as polearms are better viable (couching lance, anticav infantry pikemen, shieldbreaking, becdecorbin spam, long maul spam).

i'll retire to polearms as soon as i can.

bye bye 2h