TO THE DEVS TEAM !!

[Dolphin]

thread TL;DR last 3 pages...


As an archer i have had the problem either kite or face a guy in plate.

I choose the honorable way and instead of being picky and having two quivers i drop one and get myself 75 wpf in one handed and 3 PS and bang i can fight back.

First of the plate will loose his feet as they dont expect archers to fight and have a decent swing speed so i get a good solid 3 hits in and then i just have to block and hit.

you still got a fair range on bows they are not precise but neither inacurrate !

SO PLEASE LOW LVL ARCHERS LEARN TO MAKE DECENT ARCHER BUILDS. (actually going to be constructive and suggest a build just look one line below)
this is the build that i know works with current release.

(click to show/hide)

str: 18
agi: 21

WPF
one handed: 77
Archery: 153

wp.master: 7
athletics: 7
pwr.strike: 3
pwr.Draw: 6

Oh and if you read this far drop your bow before entering combat to gain your full move speed and i suggest a blunt mace or high swing cut sword.
can also swap 1 ath for 1 extra pwr.strike.
and guess what done be useless early lvl fight with your 1 handed weapons !

(click to show/hide)

EDIT: i for one does not think archery need more nerf but they dont need any buff either you can make decent builds as it is.
no i do not play archer as my main build, anymore.

[Blackbow]

nice build do what the dolphin said !!! =)

[Berserkadin]

Nerf archers ability to kite, buff their melee capabilites.

[Grumpy_Nic]

Still, collaborating as ranged units is extremely simple and intuitive as well as does not require any particular twitch skill. However, cav can stop each other, which usually means the stopped ones are dead meat and infantry require care and precise timing not to th.

Putting many ranged in a group only increases its power without any downside. In fact a ranged zerg only has advantages because of the projectile stun making chainshotting a very common event and also diversifying the shooting angles in a way that negates shielders and dodging.

I try to avoid ranged groups because its very annoying when people run into your crosshair all the time. So its not only benefits - it probably seems like a very small downside for you but still it is there. Cav stopping each other happens too ofc, but hey if you dont watch where u're riding I'm glad to use this to my advantage as ranged and take the shot. And I would be stupid not to, every cav will gladly backstab me whenever there is an opportunity.
Everybody tries to use a mistake of an enemy and damage/kill him as quickly as possible.

When it comes to shooting down horses I never hear "Nerf ranged" from my teammates, as soon as a 2hander starts enganging 2 archers they are overpowered.
Very often I try shooting down horses that are charging teammates which results in the rider going prone right next to allies, which is great because he can be killed right away. Not a single ally will complain when ranged shoots down enemy horses. Many people just think that there should be no danger approaching archers, but there is. I'm not gonna engage a dedicated melee guy without having wpf in melee as long as I can shoot.
No melee guy is gonna pick up an xbow or bow in order to fight me with a ranged weapon so why the hell should ranged go melee if they are not forced to?

[peter_afca7]

I could take a picture on NA1 and I'll see a shit ton of 2h, maybe half the team, maybe even more....yet I see no 2h nerf....

Also, on the topic of arrows going through people, I can verify this. I've noticed countless times now the arrow will go directly through me, my body or shield if it's up, will get stunned or moved like I got hit by an arrow, but no noise, no arrow, no health loss. Really weird.

read forum name dumbass MELEEGAMING

[Gravoth_iii]

Nerf archers ability to kite, buff their melee capabilites.

Kiting has already been nerfed and archers are already capable of doing some melee but they choose kiting, which is fine imo because then they are useless as soon as they run out of arrows. Have seen some recent 2v1s where the last shielder blocks the last remaining arrows and the archers are fucked because a hand axe can only do so much ^^

[bagge]

Now you do know that you are naming the top archers in this game and they are probably all high lvl?

I'm not high level anymore

I got the worst freaking build for battle as well. 4 ath 0 ps. GG when melee's are closing in, and no I can't kite for shit. I'd definitely go hybrid again, if we could have some proper melee weapons.

[Dolphin]

"""Cough !""" Nordic champion sword "COUGH !""
""COPGUYAGSDF""" warhammer "@afosfmCOUGH""""

just saying use one handed
fastest weapons for low wpf.

edit: i do not like archery BECOME A POLEARM TODAY, And help free the world of cav !

[Berserkadin]

Kiting has already been nerfed and archers are already capable of doing some melee but they choose kiting, which is fine imo because then they are useless as soon as they run out of arrows. Have seen some recent 2v1s where the last shielder blocks the last remaining arrows and the archers are fucked because a hand axe can only do so much ^^

Or they start running around the battlefield looking for more arrows.

[Joker86]

In addition to my post where I stated a few points, I'd like to add another one:

Hybridization (?) is NO solution. Not at all. It lowers the diversity, and makes things pretty dull, where in the end we will have all infantry ending up with having a ranged sidearm.

Let's assume, an archer has a 50% chance of killing an infantryman while he approaches. But if the infantryman survives and reaches the archer, he will kill him with a 100% chance (still assuming), so the chances for the different outcomes are 50/50, things are balanced. (Though it's still bad game design, because the outcome would actually depend most on the archer, where the infantryman would have less influence and his gameplay would end up being mainly luck based - it's complicated)

Now if you say that archers should stand a good chance in melee against infantry to not be forced to kite, you need to improve their melee capabilities, obviously. But to keep things balanced their ranged capabilities should be nerfed. So if we have infantry which is slightly better in melee than archers, we need archers who are slightly better in ranged than infantry. As infantry has no ranged capabilities at all, ranged should be nerfed to the level of stone throwing peasants, as those are "only slightly better" than no ranged at all. And suddenly we have a bunch of more or less capable melee characters with a few of them having the power to interrupt others over distance and annoy them. That's not what I'd call a great improvement.

Only by keeping the classes specialized you have a wide range of builds, enough room for hybrids, the highly developed strengthes and weaknesses encourage/force players to team play and finally, which is a really important point, you have classes which play totally differently.

So please, no melee archers. Leave this to the few hybrids who decide to go that way, but don't make the game plain.

[Razzer]

You haven't got a clue

Alright Mr. Badass

[Macropus]

Ah I feel so bad for archers...
They're really poor atm (except when  they headshot me from behind).

I think the problem is - if an archer wants to have some melee capabilities, he must sacrifice his archery capabilities. It should be the other way: archers should have some melee capabilities REGARDLESS what build they're using. Then there would be no sense in no using melee, and archers wouldn't have to become aimless randomshooters to be able defending themselves.
But it's just a dreams...
Now melee-archer hybrids just suck. Don't tell me they don't suck because Tenne is so good. He's good because he's a very good archer and a 2h hero. It doesn't mean his build is cool, I bet he would have better k/d with pure 2h build.

Hey Blackbow, become a shielder too! Low upkeep, high influense on battle results, and nobody can kill you with ease 

[Joker86]

Ah I feel so bad for archers...
They're really poor atm (except when  they headshot me from behind).

I think the problem is - if an archer wants to have some melee capabilities, he must sacrifice his archery capabilities. It should be the other way: archers should have some melee capabilities REGARDLESS what build they're using. Then there would be no sense in no using melee, and archers wouldn't have to become aimless randomshooters to be able defending themselves.
But it's just a dreams...
Now melee-archer hybrids just suck. Don't tell me they don't suck because Tenne is so good. He's good because he's a very good archer and a 2h hero. It doesn't mean his build is cool, I bet he would have better k/d with pure 2h build.

Hey Blackbow, become a shielder too! Low upkeep, high influense on battle results, and nobody can kill you with ease 

Additionally to my post a little bit above yours, I'd like to add one thing:

I don't know what the percentage is, if it's some, many or even most, but there are players who chose to be archer to NOT have to deal with all those experienced and skilled players in melee. You know, if they wanted to fight in melee, they'd create a 2hd hero. Your solution would only apply for those players who like melee, but like ranged a little bit better. But for those players who are afraid of melee, giving the bow a secondary mode with 55c swing damage would still not stop them from running.

[Belatu]

THOSE STATEMENTS I EXPOSED BEFORE LONG TIME AGO AND THEY CALLED ME MAD XDDD


man you are right, the problem is not how to make an archer stop kitting, but asking themselves WHY AN ARCHER RUN AWAY?

The OP is right and I hope devs listen to him.
I know that archery is very bad contemplated between the dev comunity, but it is sad this way, meleegaming.com ... melee this ... melee that
I know that there are no other games for medieval melee simulator and you melee guys love this a lot but BUT ALSO THERE ARE NO OTHER MEDIEVAL ARCHER SIMULATOR and this mod is full of people who like ranged playing and they are like half fucked.

So please, you just remove bows from game, it is fine, do it, why not? just do it and you will have less problems for balancing and everything

I support the Bow as secondary mode for melee with wpf so people can defend.

At least archers can defend for agiwhores/ninjas whose only mission in their lives is to look for archers and kill them. Do you want that in your mod? they have been around since long time ago, and always more and more. First it was the cav hunting down archers, well thats fine, ok, cool, then it was, ninjas trying to backstab, ok fine, they tried and was fun, later on, medium armours, shielders, peasants, agiwhores, 2handers tincan and everybody run for an archer like it is an easy kill, dont run away because it is slow, cant defend themselves because they suck, and maybe if they are high level enough they hit you 3 or 4 times they will not take half of your life XDDDDDDD

Devs listen to the OP he is saying good things, and if not, why not remove archery? or remake it from scratch, copy the native again and do litle modification, I know that you want to do a new game  but sometimes copying is the best. Look for the native or other mods where archery os fun and copy it. It is better than patching over mistakes and messing forever.

Ah, as I said, also very long time ago, you need players whose main chars are archers closer to the dev team, you always lack of it and this is the result.

k

[Macropus]

Additionally to my post a little bit above yours, I'd like to add one thing:

I don't know what the percentage is, if it's some, many or even most, but there are players who chose to be archer to NOT have to deal with all those experienced and skilled players in melee. You know, if they wanted to fight in melee, they'd create a 2hd hero. Your solution would only apply for those players who like melee, but like ranged a little bit better. But for those players who are afraid of melee, giving the bow a secondary mode with 55c swing damage would still not stop them from running.

You're right, but my suggestion wasn't meant to make kiting archers fight in melee (nothing could force them), but it meant to make melee-archers NOT LOSE their ranged abilities and be equial in shooting with "no melee", so basically archers who wouldn't use their melee abilities would look like a cav that doesn't use weapons and only uses his bumps.