Increase Riding Requirements for most Horses

[Zlisch_The_Butcher]

Ideally as many things as possible should be equally balanced, deciding "Lol let's make cav OP as fuck because lawl" is fucking retarded, and adding special ticks to play cav is even worse, upkeep is a bad enough system already, people shouldn't be forced into being bored for ten minutes in order to spend one minute doing something they enjoy, the entire upkeep concept is fucked up in general and so is your suggestion.

[Torben]

Ideally as many things as possible should be equally balanced, deciding "Lol let's make cav OP as fuck because lawl" is fucking retarded, and adding special ticks to play cav is even worse, upkeep is a bad enough system already, people shouldn't be forced into being bored for ten minutes in order to spend one minute doing something they enjoy, the entire upkeep concept is fucked up in general and so is your suggestion.

so meh.  fuck this.

dude. 

[Quentry]

you have a point about having very few but strong cav,  however it shouldnt be balanced by gold,  Id rather see it balanced by some random fair factor.  like getting some tick for every minute you play and use those ticks as cav,  so anyone can have a strict amount of time playing in the saddle,  something like 1 in five maps or so.  would suck for random players again though cause they could only play once every few days as cav,  so meh.  fuck this.

It's game and it MUST be balanced, but in real life knights were overpowered (KO). Ok, increase upkeep of heavy horses and decrease HP of light ones, so everyone can play on lihgt horse but they'll be oneshoted by everybody. And return normal lancing and damage of heavy lance.
May be limit amount of cav about 25% of people on server?

[Quentry]

Ideally as many things as possible should be equally balanced, deciding "Lol let's make cav OP as fuck because lawl" is fucking retarded, and adding special ticks to play cav is even worse, upkeep is a bad enough system already, people shouldn't be forced into being bored for ten minutes in order to spend one minute doing something they enjoy, the entire upkeep concept is fucked up in general and so is your suggestion.

What do you suggest to do?

[Hunter_the_Honourable]

It's game and it MUST be balanced, but in real life knights were overpowered (KO). Ok, increase upkeep of heavy horses and decrease HP of light ones, so everyone can play on lihgt horse but they'll be oneshoted by everybody. And return normal lancing and damage of heavy lance.
May be limit amount of cav about 25% of people on server?

Please stop suggesting increasing the upkeep of cav, its a very stupid Idea and wont help "balance" anything at all and will only allow Nolifers to play cav. Increasing upkeep will not balance anything.

[Zlisch_The_Butcher]

What do you suggest to do?

My complete suggestion for fixing cav?

Nerf bump damage into the dirt, allow people to block while knocked down (both by normal weapons and bumps), make cav more manueverable and faster, do so that ctrl+j (rearing your horse on your own) deals decent amounts of damage and knocks down people in front of you, do so that colliding with things heavily damages your horse, make cav really loud so it isn't about backstabbing anymore, add a qm-something command which will type with green text in chat "cav entered X m radius" whenever a cav (both ally and enemy) enters a certain radius of you, return the old lance angle, lower general lance length so that the longest couch only lance is 180reach and the longest normal lance is 165, (if possible) add sidestepping to horses, make cav require wpf in riding (higher wpf makes your horse faster and more maneuverable, each skill point in riding reduces effective riding wpf by 10 and you must have at least one effective wpf to ride a horse), make several high tier polearms/2h either unsheathable or 3slot, remove blocking from all lances but the light lance and the double sided lance, allow the double sided lance to stab backwards if you press x with it, remove the horse leg damage thing, make a hit to a horse stop the riders attack, and make cav spawn 15sec later than infantry to nerf spawnraping.

[Torben]

My complete suggestion for fixing cav?

Nerf bump damage into the dirt, allow people to block while knocked down (both by normal weapons and bumps), make cav more manueverable and faster, do so that ctrl+j (rearing your horse on your own) deals decent amounts of damage and knocks down people in front of you, make cav really loud so it isn't about backstabbing anymore, add a qm-something command which will type with green text in chat "cav entered X m radius" whenever a cav (both ally and enemy) enters a certain radius of you, return the old lance angle, lower general lance length so that the longest couch only lance is 180reach and the longest normal lance is 165, (if possible) add sidestepping to horses, make cav require wpf in riding (higher wpf makes your horse faster and more maneuverable, each skill point in riding reduces effective riding wpf by 10 and you must have at least one effective wpf to ride a horse), make several high tier polearms/2h either unsheathable or 3slot, remove blocking from all lances but the light lance and the double sided lance, allow the double sided lance to stab backwards if you press x with it, remove the horse leg damage thing, make a hit to a horse stop the riders attack, and make cav spawn 15sec later than infantry to nerf spawnraping.

a very nice summation of great (most of them) suggestions that a majority of the player base liked.  lets see what happens tomorrow : )

[donib]

The first issue was, a higher than lvl 30 cav build is both effective on horseback as infantry. It has turned now into a cav bash thread just to fuck up cav completely so that this game becomes Ned Stark kuyak 2 handed simulator or legolas simulator.

Am I the only one not complaining about the classes as they are except for the excessive use of archery lately, but it isn't because of the class, people are just into archery lately.
The only class that needs revision is xbow class.

[Thomek]

Hell I'll chip in.. 

First of all, let's see what happens tomorrow.

But in general. Cav has always been the most effective class.. From almost 3 years of cRPG I think I can say they top the scoreboard most often compared to how few they are. I do understand my fellow badmin smooths enthusiasm here.

Take Torben, a fine gentleman who has my respect, but he can hardly block.  Still I bet he has one of the finest K:D ratios of all cRPG due to being on a horse.. (and being decent with it)

I'm not for nerfing them into the ground, but let's face it.. Riding around with a giant poleaxe on your back must be rather impractical. I'd say you should either choose between a big ass lance or a big ass axe.

- Giving the lance 3 slots would kill the arhcetypical knight with lance and sword. I don't like it.
- Making big ass axes 3 slots would not be fair in the pole vs 2h battle.
- Making the big ass axes unsheathable I'd say is the best solution.. Perhaps with making minor riding adjustments for the horses.

And I can't remember cav ever being nerfed into the ground. All nerfs to them has been overcome by players and justified. It wouldn't hurt if they got it hard once..

And prices of weapons and armor and horses should be automatically adjusted by popularity, but that's another discussion..  (Perhaps as a percentage of their loom prices the last 30 days?)

[Torben]

its true :'D

[Zlisch_The_Butcher]

Hell I'll chip in.. 

First of all, let's see what happens tomorrow.

But in general. Cav has always been the most effective class.. From almost 3 years of cRPG I think I can say they top the scoreboard most often compared to how few they are. I do understand my fellow badmin smooths enthusiasm here. Cav is the class that is in general able to get the most kills, and the way it gets 99% of all its kills is also extremely lame, however all your suggestions for fixes are in my opinion in general, shit.

Take Torben, a fine gentleman who has my respect, but he can hardly block.  Still I bet he has one of the finest K:D ratios of all cRPG due to being on a horse.. (and being decent with it) Torben is good on ground from what I recall, not 100% sure though, long since I've last seen him dismounted.

I'm not for nerfing them into the ground, but let's face it.. Riding around with a giant poleaxe on your back must be rather impractical. I'd say you should either choose between a big ass lance or a big ass axe.

- Giving the lance 3 slots would kill the arhcetypical knight with lance and sword. I don't like it.
- Making big ass axes 3 slots would not be fair in the pole vs 2h battle. Indeed, but you could also make the big ass 2hs either unsheathable or (if they got a real sheath) 3 slot, and that is a much better solution than any other.
- Making the big ass axes unsheathable I'd say is the best solution.. Perhaps with making minor riding adjustments for the horses.

And I can't remember cav ever being nerfed into the ground. All nerfs to them has been overcome by players and justified. It wouldn't hurt if they got it hard once..

And prices of weapons and armor and horses should be automatically adjusted by popularity, but that's another discussion..  (Perhaps as a percentage of their loom prices the last 30 days?) Shit idea, if every player started using a pitchfork it wouldn't make the pitchfork a better weapon, and upkeep is only a pain in the ass, not a real thing to stop you from doing something (those str plated charger cav will always ride their plated chargers).

Btw why'd you 1+d my suggestion when I clearly recall us having arguments with me more or less suggesting that exact thing in every one of the million nerf cav threads you've made?

[Thomek]

I can't remember Zlisch.. r u sure u are not one of the many obsessing over me again?

About Torben I was exaggerating.. But he's for sure much better on a horse than on the ground!

[Zlisch_The_Butcher]

I can't remember Zlisch.. r u sure u are not one of the many obsessing over me again?

I ain't, you were always asking for speed (and maybe bumps, this I'm not 100% sure about) buffs but maneuver nerfs while the main component of my suggestion was actually making cav maneuverable and fast while nerfing bump damage and reach, you made a thread called "cav the final solution" or something like that to which I replied making a thread switching the word cav with ninja in the OP, I got a near photographical memory with everything that isn't numbers.

[San]

I understand what you mean Thomek, but from a gameplay perspective, what makes that "big ass axe" any more of an effective choice compared to anything else? I personally think 1h + shield would be as or even more effective since you can use a shield with the lance and then a 1h weapon on foot.

I just think that melee cav should require a few more points to commit without barring them from using certain horses. Ranged don't need a double penalty when they already have HA and high wpf requirements. Melee cav players need neither currently.

Then make cav pay a bit more for mistakes (baseline-> damage for crashing into walls and rider stunned when horse rears). There were plenty of times I crashed into a wall or got stopped on purpose, got off my horse with no/little damage (horse could be in the way or a weak pikeman/hoplite stop you) and then had an advantage/equal terms over that opponent with 1h. If someone is near a wall, you can run him over and get off the horse before he can hit you back.

[Thomek]

The thing about crashing into walls and louder/better sound suggestions is that they are technically infeasible for the devs.. They ain't gonna happen, so bury those ideas NOW! Stop dreaming!
(And shoot me down hard if they arrive in patch tomorrow!)