Author Topic: Increase Riding Requirements for most Horses  (Read 5622 times)

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Offline Smoothrich

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Re: Increase Riding Requirements for most Horses
« Reply #15 on: January 02, 2013, 08:37:57 am »
-5
make lances 3 slots

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Offline a_bear_irl

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Re: Increase Riding Requirements for most Horses
« Reply #16 on: January 02, 2013, 11:09:33 am »
0
i dont know if a riding skill increase is the solution to this problem, but it's definitely stupid that any melee build can drop 3-4 IF and 1-2 WM and have a completely viable cav build.

you effectively have two lives, one as cav and one as melee. ride around and lance people until you get dehorsed and then hop up and continue as a build that loses at most 8 HP and 20 proficiency when compared to a pure melee build of the same str/agi combo. and if you have access to a good armory (pretty much every good player does) then your +3 everything will easily make up that difference when compared to a normal player.

whereas all the other hybrid classes have some clear disadvantages (slot problems, accuracy problems, etc), melee-cav does not. there's no reason not to do it instead of a pure melee build unless you just don't like being cav.
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Offline Torben

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Re: Increase Riding Requirements for most Horses
« Reply #17 on: January 02, 2013, 12:11:00 pm »
+3
I´m wondering what is going on in NA that people still think cav is overpowered,  especially lancer cav...  are you guys still heavy on str builds that cant outmaneuver/jumpslash/whatever,  you guys having a cav spam atm or what is the matter? 
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Offline Smoothrich

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Re: Increase Riding Requirements for most Horses
« Reply #18 on: January 02, 2013, 12:34:37 pm »
-4

whereas all the other hybrid classes have some clear disadvantages (slot problems, accuracy problems, etc), melee-cav does not. there's no reason not to do it instead of a pure melee build unless you just don't like being cav.

It's a problem I want to see solved by slots.  Making lances 3 slots will significantly nerf the viability of lancer hybrids, which is the worst offender of balance in regards to cav.  They will still have similar builds, but have to scavenge for a decent weapon on the ground after dismount (creating vulnerability), spec into 1hand no shield (gimped like an arbalester/archer) or use the lance as melee (heavy lance is awful at this).

Also I think the lance and light lance need a damage nerf now too, and possibly speed as well to make them a bit worse as infantry.  Increase the weights too to gimp their escapes.

Light Lance
thrust damage: 27p - lower by 2 to 25p
speed rating: 91 - lower by 3 to 88
weapon length: 175
weight: 1.5 - raise by 2 to 3.5

Lance
thrust damage:  28p - lower by 2 to 26p
speed rating: 85 - lower by 4 to 81
weapon length: 180
weight: 1.5 - raise by 2.2 to 3.7

Heavy Lance
thrust damage: 23p -  good
speed rating: 74 - good
weapon length: 190
weight:  1.8 - raise by 2.2 to 4

Every 2 directional polearm around 170 reach weighs nearly double the lances, and the lances are usually longer anyways with comparable damage.  Nerf them across the board to be much worse infantry weapons and reduce the damage of Light and Lance to be comparable to the Heavy Lance nerf.  Hell, people use the Light Lance as a hoplite weapon already because its very good for it.

I also would suggest nerfing the stats of the Destrier, War Horse, and Large War Horse.  Too good for their price and the small investment needed in them.  This will encourage people to go above 5 riding to increase their stats.

Tying riding skill to your own stats would be an elegant solution to STR cav as well.  If your powerstrike is greater than your riding, your new PS is averaged between the difference. 

21/18 and 24/15 builds get 6.5 PS.  27/15 builds get 7 PS.  Encourage 18/18 builds for cavalry/infantry hybridization, or agi heavy.

Maybe tweak that a bit and throw in WPF into a formula (im bad at numbers.)  The idea would be you need WM almost as high as your riding invested into a weapon to not get significant PS reduction.  110 wpf + riding = a build only doing half damage at all times.  No matter how high your WPF is you should still end up doing less damage then a build with no riding and similar WPF.  Maybe just a big reduction in WPF from riding skill instead of affecting PS with the same intent.

Ultimately find a balance to create a ghetto HA skill based on WM.  HA skill already gives a persistent WPF nerf to your ranged skill, allegedly.  Port this to your PS skill for melee cav/infantry hybrids, along with melee WPF reduction.  Force cavalry players to max out WM and NOT spread it out (too much) to be a functional hybrid, while still having a broad reduction in infantry viability by lowering damage and swing speed.
« Last Edit: January 02, 2013, 01:14:57 pm by Smoothrich »
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Offline Torben

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Re: Increase Riding Requirements for most Horses
« Reply #19 on: January 02, 2013, 12:52:49 pm »
+2
oh this thread was for crazy people, i'm out.
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Offline Zlisch_The_Butcher

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Re: Increase Riding Requirements for most Horses
« Reply #20 on: January 02, 2013, 01:20:41 pm »
0
Personally the issue is that cav is the one thing that is easy to hybrid with, while also being one of the most powerful possible hybrids, one level allows you to ride a rouncey if your build got 9agi, if you sacrifice two levels you'll be able to ride a destrier and you'll still have one point left.

However I personally believe there is still some flaw in BADPLAYERs idea as it really still doesn't solve much and everyone and their mother will still be able to hybrid cav as long as they're an agi build. My proposed solution would be altering the stats on all the highend polearms and making the vast majority of polearms over 130 length (a few exceptions such as some spears, all lances but the heavy and the couch only ones and staffs and the practice lance though) unsheathable and then making all greatswords without sheathes unsheathable and making all the ones with sheathes three slot, this would start to push things in the right direction however the optimal end result for cavalry is in my opinion adding a wpf for horseriding and perhaps later altering the mechanics to make things more skillbased (not talking silly Thomek bullshit of just making horses one-hit bump even more but making them unmanouverable).

EDIT: Also, as Vibe said, decrease cost, 1+ Vibe.
« Last Edit: January 02, 2013, 01:55:19 pm by Zlisch_The_Butcher »
1H stab is the fastest, strongest and longest 1H animation. There's no reason NOT to use it in all instances. I don't know if it's OP, but it's boring. 1H used to be fun because you had a fast (left), long (right) and the most devastating attack (stab) and had to choose the best attack for each occasion.

Offline Tovi

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Re: Increase Riding Requirements for most Horses
« Reply #21 on: January 02, 2013, 01:27:04 pm »
0
Try to ride a horse in a full archer map and remember Agincourt  :wink:
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Offline Vibe

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Re: Increase Riding Requirements for most Horses
« Reply #22 on: January 02, 2013, 01:39:10 pm »
0
Increase requirements, decrease cost

Offline Torben

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Re: Increase Riding Requirements for most Horses
« Reply #23 on: January 02, 2013, 02:04:32 pm »
+5
increasing requirements would,  on EU side,  change little as most are agi lancers.  would only gimp new players into never getting to use the fun horses.

just fucking buff the other classes or whatever,  why do people always want to nerf the mod,  decrease variability and lessen the fun.
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Offline Torben

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Re: Increase Riding Requirements for most Horses
« Reply #24 on: January 02, 2013, 02:33:57 pm »
+2
and seriuosly,  increase requirments and decrease the cost?  every peasant and his mother are riding mamluks if they want to,  and the last requirement increase only made courser/arabs disappear for about a month. 

decreasing the cost would give us a huge cav clusterfuck again.
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Offline CrazyCracka420

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Re: Increase Riding Requirements for most Horses
« Reply #25 on: January 02, 2013, 05:04:03 pm »
0
I disagree with Bad.

At level 30, with 6 riding requirement I have this build:

    Strength: 18
    Agility: 18
    Hit points: 55

    Skills to attributes: 2

    Ironflesh: 1
    Power Strike: 6
    Shield: 4
    Athletics: 6
    Riding: 6
    Weapon Master: 6


If I was a pure footman, I could have this build at level 30 instead:

    Strength: 24
    Agility: 18
    Hit points: 59

    Skills to attributes: 14

    Power Strike: 8
    Athletics: 6
    Weapon Master: 3

Tell me how my 18/18 build with a shield/riding is comparable to someone with the same agility (athletics) but 2 more PS.  A pure Infantry is still going to have better stats than me as a dehorsed infantry if they do it right.

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Offline Zlisch_The_Butcher

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Re: Increase Riding Requirements for most Horses
« Reply #26 on: January 02, 2013, 05:17:30 pm »
+1
Dumb the if, the shield, and 3 of wm (just like you did on your other build) and you could get 21/18.
1H stab is the fastest, strongest and longest 1H animation. There's no reason NOT to use it in all instances. I don't know if it's OP, but it's boring. 1H used to be fun because you had a fast (left), long (right) and the most devastating attack (stab) and had to choose the best attack for each occasion.

Offline Kafein

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Re: Increase Riding Requirements for most Horses
« Reply #27 on: January 02, 2013, 05:41:38 pm »
-3
Nerf the high tier polearms. They need it anyway.

Offline Hunter_the_Honourable

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Re: Increase Riding Requirements for most Horses
« Reply #28 on: January 02, 2013, 06:49:57 pm »
+2
Soo you want to make lances 3 slots? I'm a pure polearm and nearly all my weapons (apart from really low tier ones like the staff) are two slots so you want to FORCE me to respec and go inf or 1h lancer cav? No offense but that is so unbelievably stupid! this is very very clearly an NA problem and making lances 3 slots is not the solution to anything at all. I really really hope that no dev listens to this because this is beyond crazy.  :?
« Last Edit: January 02, 2013, 08:15:59 pm by Hunter_the_Honourable »
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Offline Mr_Oujamaflip

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Re: Increase Riding Requirements for most Horses
« Reply #29 on: January 02, 2013, 08:04:15 pm »
0
Only problem with cav that I can see is that the destrier is slightly OP. It's an armoured horse, without the armour. But better.