Author Topic: Increase Riding Requirements for most Horses  (Read 5621 times)

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Offline BADPLAYER_old2

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Increase Riding Requirements for most Horses
« on: January 01, 2013, 01:37:02 am »
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Offline Torben

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Re: Increase Riding Requirements for most Horses
« Reply #1 on: January 01, 2013, 01:43:03 am »
+4
yes nerf diversity of low level builds even more. 

i do get it if we are talking about high level guys,  your changes would be inside my build n all that,  so my response is not biased towards my needs.  Im just rly concerned how many changes that are proposed make it rly hard for the average noob to actually get to the fun equipment.

edit:
the new wpf curve will also force to put points into wm,  so that will help i guess.
« Last Edit: January 01, 2013, 02:02:23 am by Torben »
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Offline San

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Re: Increase Riding Requirements for most Horses
« Reply #2 on: January 01, 2013, 02:58:55 am »
0
A skill like HA for melee would separate horse movement from horse melee power. I'm not sure cutting off a lot of horses would be okay, although I do think destrier and the heavy horses should be higher requirement. As a 25/15 cav hybrid, I perform well even on a rouncey with minimal skill investment.. Cav hybrid is one of the ultimate high level builds imo.

Current cav builds/equipment wouldn't be affected much other than losing some IF or something, making it a little more of a commitment.

It's just debatable whether high levels of that horse combat skill would bring you to current attack levels or slightly better than current levels. It would surely buff high agi pure cav builds.

EDIT: Fixed a really badly made sentence
« Last Edit: January 01, 2013, 03:08:15 am by san. »

Offline Torben

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Re: Increase Riding Requirements for most Horses
« Reply #3 on: January 01, 2013, 02:10:25 pm »
+2
seems like this is an NA problem cause EU usually doesnt go 0 wm.  as mentioned above i think the new wm/ wpf thing coming up will handle your problem quite nicely.
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Re: Increase Riding Requirements for most Horses
« Reply #4 on: January 01, 2013, 02:15:42 pm »
+3
Increase the riding skill req`s, but give a buff to horses.


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Re: Increase Riding Requirements for most Horses
« Reply #5 on: January 01, 2013, 02:50:26 pm »
+2
Yeah, make my horse that dies to 2 arrows even more useless, cause i would actually have to go agi whore to use it? No, thanks.

Offline donib

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Re: Increase Riding Requirements for most Horses
« Reply #6 on: January 01, 2013, 05:25:10 pm »
+2
This is bs, 24 agi for a SLOW horse and you are left with low ps/strength so you do low damage. Best we kill any hybrid build possible, which are imo the most fun classes to play

Offline BADPLAYER_old2

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Re: Increase Riding Requirements for most Horses
« Reply #7 on: January 01, 2013, 05:36:03 pm »
0
Right now I am 27/15 9ps 4if 5ath 5riding and it is a completely retarded build, I 1-2 shot 90% of people on horseback riding a Destrier that tanks alot of hits and if I get dehorsed no problem I have a poleaxe/whatever on my back and i'm an extremely effective melee build. I really don't see how this is balanced in any way shape or form, the ability to just be able to bump with a horse is already a huge advantage since it makes you the best support class in the game, but to actually be effective at lancing and THEN be a great melee build on the ground with a build like that is just too much for too little investment.

I used to play 12/30, 15/27, 18/24 builds as cavalry and most cavalry should have to dedicate that much to ride a horse considering how good they are even when the player riding the horse is awful.
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Offline Molly

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Re: Increase Riding Requirements for most Horses
« Reply #8 on: January 01, 2013, 06:40:09 pm »
-6
How about removing the possibility to carry a second weapon on horseback. That way lancers would have to stick with their lance which is a "nerf" to their melee capabilities. But what about 1h/shield-cav?

Just thinking out loud here...
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Offline Malaclypse

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Re: Increase Riding Requirements for most Horses
« Reply #9 on: January 01, 2013, 07:06:16 pm »
+3
This is bs, 24 agi for a SLOW horse and you are left with low ps/strength so you do low damage. Best we kill any hybrid build possible, which are imo the most fun classes to play

The horse will be made somewhat faster as well as more agile with 8 riding, at least. I'm also wondering what you're considering as low PS/STR, as I see people talk about builds with 15 or less Agility all the time while never regarding that as a low value.

I do think the requirements could be fine tuned better, but I'm not sure if I agree with the model BADPLAYER put up (no 4 or 5 Riding horses at all). Consider that the most PD it costs to use a bow is 6, the most PT it costs to use a throwing weapon is 7, the most Strength it costs to use a melee weapon is 20, the most Shield skill it costs to use a shield is 6. I don't think any horses should be above 7 Skill requirement, but more of them should be up there as well at 6 skill tier while keeping 3, 4, and 5 in use.
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Offline donib

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Re: Increase Riding Requirements for most Horses
« Reply #10 on: January 01, 2013, 08:20:24 pm »
+1
Right now I am 27/15 9ps 4if 5ath 5riding and it is a completely retarded build, I 1-2 shot 90% of people on horseback riding a Destrier that tanks alot of hits and if I get dehorsed no problem I have a poleaxe/whatever on my back and i'm an extremely effective melee build.

I must agree this is a very extreme example, but is this a level 30 build? If so it should be extremely weak dismounted. At level 35 this is probably much more effective. In this case i dont think a solution would be to change the riding skill.

If you look at the 21/15 build for armored horse, i think it is perfectly fine, where you can trade IF for WM if need be.

Your solution would probably kill the build you mentioned but it would also ruin the other ones like the one above, or the 18/18 lancer/1h. Those are fun builds and well balanced. Applying your solution would just ruin them.

Ill go with benkei on this one, do something about those big polearms as secondary weapons, maybe make the heavy lance a 3-slot weapon, and for the hybrid lancers you got the normal lance on 2-slot.

Offline Kafein

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Re: Increase Riding Requirements for most Horses
« Reply #11 on: January 01, 2013, 08:37:14 pm »
-3
How about removing the possibility to carry a second weapon on horseback. That way lancers would have to stick with their lance which is a "nerf" to their melee capabilities. But what about 1h/shield-cav?

Just thinking out loud here...

Make top tier polearms above 120 reach 3slots and unsheatable. The bec isn't a problem, glaives/poleaxes are.

Offline Pentecost

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Re: Increase Riding Requirements for most Horses
« Reply #12 on: January 02, 2013, 12:17:56 am »
+1
What I suggest is you having to dedicate alot more to riding in your build to use any good horses and to that end I think these are more fair Riding Requirements for horses:

Sumpter - 3 Riding Requirement
Rouncey/Palfrey/Steppe/Desert - 6 Riding Requirement
Destrier/Arabian/Courser - 7 Riding Requirement
All the Armoured Horses - 8 Riding Requirement

I don't necessarily disagree with the spirit of your suggestion, but I do want to point out that the requirements for riding you've proposed aren't likely to be approved because, as Malaclypse pointed out, they aren't parallel with the other requirements in the mod. Consider:

-If you are melee, 15 strength is enough to use a plurality of good weapons (the Longsword and its variants, most of the greatswords, Morningstar, Barmace etc). If you go up to 20 strength, you can use every melee weapon in the game.
-If you are an archer, 15 strength and 5 power draw gives you access to a good bow that is also the most commonly fielded bow in Strategus (Horn Bow). If you go up to 18 strength and 6 power draw, you can use every bow in the game.
-If you are a thrower, 15 strength and 5 power throw lets you use all of the best throwing weapons out there (Heavy Throwing Axe, War Darts, Jarids if those are your thing). You can go up to 21 strength and 7 power throw, but there's little point in doing so as the Throwing Lance is gimmicky and expensive.
-If you are a crossbowman, 15 strength is enough to use every single crossbow out there.

I assume this is why, for cavalry, the developers decided to go with 15 agility and 5 riding as the requirement to use most of the good horses and 21 agility and 7 riding as the point where you can use every horse in the game. If you want to get them to increase the requirements in order to make hybrid cavalry less viable, you may want to address why your proposal is better than some of the other changes people here are suggesting that would have a less deleterious effect on many existing builds.

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Re: Increase Riding Requirements for most Horses
« Reply #13 on: January 02, 2013, 01:17:33 am »
0
Personally I see this as an NA problem, I go pure polearm and cav so by the end of my build I have 7 riding and my build is 18/21 yet you want me to go 15/24 just because you think its OP? Ok Hybrids might seem OP for what they are and fair enough if you want that to change but you forget about Pure builds. I'm going to suffer more then anyone else because hybrids seem like easy mode? I mean seriously 8 riding for the armored horses that have very little use (in EU anyway) and cost a fortune to repair.

At the end of the day I can't really see or suggest a solution because I don't know anything about hybrid builds or how things are on NA, on EU I don't notice or see a problem with hybrids as for armored horses they don't really exist and are hardly seen compared to the rouncey courser and destrier.
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Re: Increase Riding Requirements for most Horses
« Reply #14 on: January 02, 2013, 01:56:11 am »
+1
Decrease cost of playing cav, but increase the requirements for it?
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