Author Topic: cRPG and Emergent Gaming (And Fun): Where It Went Wrong  (Read 7015 times)

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Offline Miley

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Re: cRPG and Emergent Gaming (And Fun): Where It Went Wrong
« Reply #90 on: December 28, 2012, 02:45:29 am »
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That randomness you knew and loved so much will not solve squat.  Your suggestions filled with buffs, nerfs and adding more stuff will not bring *the good old days* back. If the basic gamemechanic is the same, if the grinding is basically the same and if all the classes still somewhat exsist there is little profit to be had by bringing the old crpg back.

Miley I highly doubt you seriuslly think, that bringing that randomness back would give you lots of more months filled with enjoyment in this mod. Id give you a week, tops, till you either start calling bullshit on many balancingissues or you just get bored like with this crpg.

An example: Its like me(and my mates) and the PW mod. We got sick of it a year ago, nomatter how much stuff they added and things they putted in there since then, we dont want to play it anymore. We know its wastly improved and more fun than the times when we played it, but we are just sick of it entirely. Its normally the basic gameplay that bores us, not the stuff, not the classes and not the maps.

You obviously did not read what I had to say, therefore I stopped reading what you had to say. So please read what I had to say again. Maybe English is not your Native language so you're no completely understanding what I said...

Offline Tibe

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Re: cRPG and Emergent Gaming (And Fun): Where It Went Wrong
« Reply #91 on: December 28, 2012, 05:02:25 am »
-1
Mkay than Sir notbeingabletomakeaclearunderstandablepoint

Offline Miley

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Re: cRPG and Emergent Gaming (And Fun): Where It Went Wrong
« Reply #92 on: December 28, 2012, 06:32:23 am »
+2
Mkay than Sir notbeingabletomakeaclearunderstandablepoint

Case closed. You used than instead of then. Tsk tsk...

Offline Tibe

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Re: cRPG and Emergent Gaming (And Fun): Where It Went Wrong
« Reply #93 on: December 28, 2012, 06:37:20 am »
-1
Case closed. You used than instead of then. Tsk tsk...

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Offline Dionysus

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Re: cRPG and Emergent Gaming (And Fun): Where It Went Wrong
« Reply #94 on: December 28, 2012, 07:07:30 pm »
+1
It went wrong the second people started becoming entitled ego-pigs, bloated on their own sense of self-importance.

Ive always been annoyed at the sheer arrogance of the player base. This ridiculous ideal of difficulty only within ones style of play and all others are easy by comparison and should therefore be reduced so as not to pop the precious ego of the self.

Im tired of the sheer torrent of abuse you receive if you even so much as deviate from the masses. It's really fucking pathetic.

As a relatively new player to the community, this is the most troubling issue with cRPG to me. No one deserves to be criticized for the way they play a video game unless they are abusing bugs or hacking. I can't say much for the old cRPG since I did not even have a computer powerful enough to run Mount & Blade until 2011, but if this community were focused more on having fun than boosting egos, I'm sure we would have much more fun.
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Offline Yachdiel

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Re: cRPG and Emergent Gaming (And Fun): Where It Went Wrong
« Reply #95 on: December 28, 2012, 10:58:13 pm »
+5
I wholeheartedly feel that the defining "fun" factor that oldcRPG carried was the individuality factor. Back then you built your character as you played based on how you felt you can most benefit the battle. I started as a 1hander but picked up polearm along the way so I could use a spear to aid my other shielders. Now, its the same cookie-cutter builds everywhere with varying levels of skill. And in a money making system that doesn't force you into a moshpit of fighting, skill is the defining characteristic, not the balance individuality and teamwork.

I love current and old cRPG. I'm not saying go back, because that's how one moves forward. I just say try bringing back a few characteristic today to make a great mod greater.

Offline Miley

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Re: cRPG and Emergent Gaming (And Fun): Where It Went Wrong
« Reply #96 on: December 28, 2012, 11:23:49 pm »
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I wholeheartedly feel that the defining "fun" factor that oldcRPG carried was the individuality factor. Back then you built your character as you played based on how you felt you can most benefit the battle. I started as a 1hander but picked up polearm along the way so I could use a spear to aid my other shielders. Now, its the same cookie-cutter builds everywhere with varying levels of skill. And in a money making system that doesn't force you into a moshpit of fighting, skill is the defining characteristic, not the balance individuality and teamwork.

I love current and old cRPG. I'm not saying go back, because that's how one moves forward. I just say try bringing back a few characteristic today to make a great mod greater.

This is basically what I said, but Tiberius did not understand.

Offline partyboy

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Re: cRPG and Emergent Gaming (And Fun): Where It Went Wrong
« Reply #97 on: December 28, 2012, 11:29:48 pm »
+1
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Offline Yachdiel

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Re: cRPG and Emergent Gaming (And Fun): Where It Went Wrong
« Reply #98 on: December 28, 2012, 11:33:54 pm »
+2
This is basically what I said, but Tiberius did not understand.

It's where the whole randomness factor came from. The gameplay fostered the ability to be different and effective. It wasn't just ladderpults that made people laugh, it was the fact that the game made the community light enough to take it as funny. Remember that Black armored guy with the Straw hat and the board shield who was a career thrower? That was funny, and effective... can't recall his name. Remember the ninjas that hid in the bushes and could ambush archers? That was something you could make of your character. The circularity of the battlemovement made it possible, and when you did it no one got mega pissed, some even laughed. Zisa got me a lot with that.

Now if you tried that, you would need a certain 2H build to do enough damage against the archers carrying their own 2H, and also you would be seen leaving the bushes as no one is focused on 1 area of battle. And you would probably be slow with your build, and cav would pick you up before you even flanked in time.

Offline Gristle

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Re: cRPG and Emergent Gaming (And Fun): Where It Went Wrong
« Reply #99 on: December 29, 2012, 12:05:50 am »
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We used to have fun.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dNOogINr7Eg

This is clearly exploiting and no one is having fun here.

Offline chadz

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Re: cRPG and Emergent Gaming (And Fun): Where It Went Wrong
« Reply #100 on: December 29, 2012, 12:29:25 am »
+14
I partially agree, partially disagree:

I disagree on the ladder issue. Lifting up teammates with ladders and causing them to fall to death is not a "witty" way to play the game. It's the same as teamkilling at spawn and patting yourself on the back for figuring out this creative way of playing.

Lifting up enemies to kill them is indeed fun, but has no place in a "serious" gamemode like battle. It could be put into a separate one, though.

I agree on the need for a more sandboxy gamemode. I think that sandbox games are the holy grail of gaming. I don't believe mixing battle with sandbox stuff works though, because some like it fair and serious, some like it goofy. The problem for those that like to "grief" is usually that they dont want to do that to other griefers. They want to do it to the serious players for maximum impact (excuse the pun). Players don't need griefers, but griefers need players. This is why creating a grief only gamemode would not work, because the griefers would be sad that no players would be there to be griefed.

That doesnt mean it's not possible to create a gamemode that allows for a combination of sandbox+competition, though.



The reason for topics like this, though, is that the cRPG playerbase is not very homogenous. I am happy about that, knowing that the game is diverse enough to attract different kinds of players, but ofc it also makes stuff more complicated. Regarding ladders: iirc 70% wanted them gone, I bowed to the majority.

Regarding streamlining balance: no one plays a game for long where the gameplay balance is totally broken. Thats fun for some time, but eventually people start figuring out the "best" builds and the entire diversity is gone, probably with the majority of players. Claiming that OP weapons or chars would have in any way helped the mod to stay fun is simply very naive.
« Last Edit: December 29, 2012, 12:34:20 am by chadz »

Offline Teeth

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Re: cRPG and Emergent Gaming (And Fun): Where It Went Wrong
« Reply #101 on: December 29, 2012, 12:39:13 am »
-1
Regarding ladders: iirc 70% wanted them gone, I bowed to the majority.
The other 30% was NA which never got past the ladderpulting stage and never figured out that ladders could give ranged an advantage.

Offline Gristle

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Re: cRPG and Emergent Gaming (And Fun): Where It Went Wrong
« Reply #102 on: December 29, 2012, 12:57:22 am »
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What about ladders on Siege? Why can't those be brought back? Many of the old Siege maps were made with player placed ladders in mind, and the removal of ladders really hurt that game mode.

The other 30% was NA which never got past the ladderpulting stage and never figured out that ladders could give ranged an advantage.

No, we just didn't think is was such an unfair advantage, and it certainly wasn't worth losing ladders all together.

Offline partyboy

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Re: cRPG and Emergent Gaming (And Fun): Where It Went Wrong
« Reply #103 on: December 29, 2012, 01:53:08 am »
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I usually have something to say about ladders but it seems to have slipped my mind.  Hmm, what could it have been?
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Offline Casimir

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Re: cRPG and Emergent Gaming (And Fun): Where It Went Wrong
« Reply #104 on: December 29, 2012, 02:17:43 am »
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I agree, terrible things have been done to cRPG in the name of balance.

However, if the devs had taken the hard line approach of never responding to forum whine i wonder whether the mod would still be running.
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