cRPG and Emergent Gaming (And Fun): Where It Went Wrong

[highglandeur]

I feel devs have intended to please the players, those who play their mod the most, they can't be blamed for that.
You are right to speak your mind though, however what you're asking for smooth (bringing back the trolling with siege towers and catapults, the healing tents, the roofcamping and fucking around) would be ok for this "conquest gametype", but not for battle. Only my humble opinion.

[Yachdiel]

Just to be sure, did you actually play back then ? Cause "one could easily do it in a day" is 100% bullshit. Also at gen 1 you only had 5% wpf carry over, +5% per gen so it only became a real problem in the later generations.

Again, false. Retiring cost gold at the time, 5000 gold at gen 1 +5000 per gen. And gold wasn't fast to obtain at all. It was the main bottleneck and the main reason even the hardcore gen grinders like gaga did not reach much higher than gen 15. Of course, the gen xp bonus and cumulative wpf of gen 15 were godlike already.

I had no trouble generating a large amount of money and XP, I was a shielder using the Luiyaedao so I was right in the battle. At the time +3 was 105 and so insanely fast I would outswing ninjas with katanas. Cav Gaga wasn't that great until she picked up the morningstar, she used the LoC often so she may have been able to grind but certainly wasn't in the action enough to make as much as i did.

Also I don't think it was +5000*gen

[karasu]

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[Shaksie]

I love you Smoothrich.
You spoke our minds.
Now devs, put more retardation into the game.
Thankye

[Smoothrich]

I feel devs have intended to please the players, those who play their mod the most, they can't be blamed for that.
You are right to speak your mind though, however what you're asking for smooth (bringing back the trolling with siege towers and catapults, the healing tents, the roofcamping and fucking around) would be ok for this "conquest gametype", but not for battle. Only my humble opinion.

I agree it doesn't fit with battle the way it is now, yes, and am not asking for it back.  Merely pointing out the evolution of the mod to the point where that kind of gameplay no longer exists.  And I agree that it would fit into a conquest gametype, which is the number one thing I'd like to see added in cRPG.  Maps that go on for half an hour or longer, with places that you need to fortify and defend, exuses to wander around the edges of the map with your buddies, ladders back in the game, hell people could be using siege towers and catapults (and hopefully soon, ballistas!)  for legitimate gameplay purposes.  It would be a breath of fresh air.  Instead they took out all of the fun and half the skill of the warband engine and stuck us with boring Battle and almost nothing else.

Conquest would be lame as fuck seeing as everybody would be spread out all over the place, but I guess you as a 2h hero would like that. 2h heroes and cav would reign supreme. Besides respawns are uncool, battle = best mode.

Also, most of the 'fun' things you described were fun for the 3 people doing it and boring/lame/annoying as fuck for the 117 other players.

Funny, a 2handed cav player I know posted in my Conquest thread that he thought archery would be the overpowered class, because they could sit in flag cap areas and defend them with cover.  I think every class could shine in that mode, and people would definitely stick together to capture or defend points, except flankers and cav and the sort will be useful in harassing rear areas and cutting off reinforcements or any sort of thing.

Wouldn't know for sure unless it was playtested.  I feel like Field by the River would be ideal for a simple beta of it, with the current spawns as 2 points and the ruins everyone fights over as the third point.  Can't imagine it will be that different from battle, except allow the map to breathe longer, the rage-levels to go down, people to care less about dying and more about working as a team and doing stuff.  And the campers and builders and all those guys would actually fit into the teams quite well, instead of trolling Battle.

Also to everyone talking about missing organized events and clan play, my friends and I are working on getting a 2 vs 2 duel tournament going soon for the NA community as we speak.  I love competitive gaming and wish there was more support for it built into cRPG myself, but it is an entirely seperate issue from the ideas I'm discussing here and might be worth its own thread.  In-game support for things like 5 vs 5 scrims, team rankings, in-client betting on match outcomes would be great, and a melee game like this could even have appeal as an e-sport.  Too bad the overhead had to be nerfed to shit and stabs made so wonky that makes dueling kind of lame now.

[Tore]

Make ivani4 admin agreed 1+

[Xol!]

If anyone has some stories about things you or your friends have done or seen in cRPG or Strat, old versions or new versions, that were unique or funny or outside the box, even if people would call it exploiting and want you banned, I'd like people to share them.

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[Leshma]

Back in the days, when I was grinding gold to buy gear, I was using pitchfork for few gens. Now I'm again doing the same thing, even if there is no rational reason behind that (sitting on 14 MW items and over 10 million of gold atm). I'm doing that because it's part of long term goal I'm trying to achieve. Without that, cRPG has no meaning for me because I've done everything cRPG has to offer. Well, I could ride plated charger or abuse extreme STR build (more than 100 HP) in full plate til the end of time but I don't find that appealing.

Now back to Pitchfork part. Year and a half ago, that pitchfork was very decent and extremely useful weapon. I could stunlock people with it, was able to toy with shielders. Nothing better when you kill full plate dude as a peasant with a damn pitchfork

Today, that Pitchfork of mine is piece of crap wood and iron meld together (just like the price suggests). Why? First of all, pitchfork always had low damage (although priece) but I never complained about it. I was able to attack while turning around and there was paulstagger. Now with both those things gone I can do very little with my pitchfork. Actually most of the time I'm backpeddaling, waiting for that moment when enemy drop his block to attack before him (which is hard with just 100 wpf and 18 AGI). Pitchfork shouldn't be any good, but I'm afraid most 2D polearms are in the same boat as Pitchfork.

All thanks to game mechanics changes that happened during last two years.

[Rebelyell]

leschma.... because warband have retarded stab block mechanik, and polestun and stab rotation is an supersillyway to fix that.
also old crpg with todays playerbase = lvl 50 and higer strat my old friends in full loomed plates on small tanks killing game with superpowered bulids....

no thx

[Berserkadin]

To all of you thinking that turn rate nerf and general slowing down of the game is a good thing

GTFO

This spiral of nerfs that cRPG has gone trough the last year is just making it worse and worse and worse. Its going down the Nerf-hole man.

[FleetFox]

Back in the days, when I was grinding gold to buy gear, I was using pitchfork for few gens. Now I'm again doing the same thing, even if there is no rational reason behind that (sitting on 14 MW items and over 10 million of gold atm). I'm doing that because it's part of long term goal I'm trying to achieve. Without that, cRPG has no meaning for me because I've done everything cRPG has to offer. Well, I could ride plated charger or abuse extreme STR build (more than 100 HP) in full plate til the end of time but I don't find that appealing.

Now back to Pitchfork part. Year and a half ago, that pitchfork was very decent and extremely useful weapon. I could stunlock people with it, was able to toy with shielders. Nothing better when you kill full plate dude as a peasant with a damn pitchfork

Today, that Pitchfork of mine is piece of crap wood and iron meld together (just like the price suggests). Why? First of all, pitchfork always had low damage (although priece) but I never complained about it. I was able to attack while turning around and there was paulstagger. Now with both those things gone I can do very little with my pitchfork. Actually most of the time I'm backpeddaling, waiting for that moment when enemy drop his block to attack before him (which is hard with just 100 wpf and 18 AGI). Pitchfork shouldn't be any good, but I'm afraid most 2D polearms are in the same boat as Pitchfork.

All thanks to game mechanics changes that happened during last two years.

Well Leshma, another way you could get a good Samaritan kick from cRPG would to join our clan the Band of Foxes and donate some looms and a few mil of gold to help our new players! thanks

[Meow]

What some people really need to understand is that griefing and trolling is not something we want.
But since some people put their "fun" above that of the other players it's often necessary to take actions and make it impossible.

I kinda see the point of the thread when it comes to building stuff in battle and siege but the rest looks like everything between early 2011 and now is completely forgotten and it's just the usual good memory about something that in reality was much worse back then.

Personally I don't really play games longer than a week or two before they bore me so c-rpg for sure was an exception and would probably still be if I had the time to game but over time people just grow tiered of the same thing over and over and I highly doubt ladders and buffs would change that.

I'm all for giving you guys the old crpg like last xmas and everyone who enjoyed that can go back to it, not that it was any less of a grind or anything.
Also much much worse for new players.

[Tibe]

Yep, Meow speaks the truth. You will be bored of the new crpg as you became bored of the old ones. Buffs and adding stuff will not change that. As like all MP games, its the grind that kills it.

[Leshma]

I'm all for giving you guys the old crpg like last xmas and everyone who enjoyed that can go back to it, not that it was any less of a grind or anything.
Also much much worse for new players.

Whole point of higher levels is having more points to play with, creating different builds. As you already know better than me, that makes balancing much harder. Grind isn't related to high levels, grind is the time needed to achieve those levels. Shorten that time and there won't be more grind. But balancing issue persists.

Also, I have a feeling you guys never put much thought into making any changes. But that's understandable because you obviously work on this in your free time. Most developers don't think much about balance either (even the paid ones), that's why most online games are more or less broken. My only problem is that you don't really take into account stuff people wrote, stuff they put a lot of thought and their free time, just like you guys did.

However, in case of standalone game I have much higher expectations

[Leshma]

Yep, Meow speaks the truth. You will be bored of the new crpg as you became bored of the old ones. Buffs and adding stuff will not change that. As like all MP games, its the grind that kills it.

Reason why are we all still here is because this is still that awesome game Warband, but much improved and with countless bugs fixed. If they take Warband component and release just Strategus without action combat, I doubt there would be much players left. cRPG/Warband is the core, Strat is just addon.

Compared to other online games, here grind is almost nonexistent. But there is that urge of most players to get as many shiny loomed items as possible and grind needed to achieve that is epic indeed. That's why I think time needed for full gen should be halved even. But higher levels make this mod more interesting.

Also Warband is popular mainly because of combat mechanics. If we forget about it, there is still fact it can host a lot of players. And it's medieval game which obviously means a lot to many people. But if we take that all away and put to the side, this is one terribly coded, ugly and game full of tiny bugs. Physics in Warband sure is interesting but collision bugs are everywhere. Just think of the ways it's possible to get stuck in this engine. Like a damn Swiss cheese, that's Warband source code.