Change Crossbow and Bolt Weight Back to Normal

[Rico]

Hey all!

As you can see in the screenshots in Dave's Crossbow Guide, crossbows and bolts used to be lighter (see /guides/crossbowery-basics-and-tricks/).

Please change the weight back to normal.

There is no point in kiting when you have a crossbow anyway, cuz once your bolt is gone, you are not gonna reload the xbow as fast as a bow. So there is no reason to make crossbowmen slower. There are some people like me who use light armor to be fast, for example to compensate the short range of the melee weapon or to allow quick flanking maneuvers. Now, I am running as if I was a tincan and can't play around with my short weapon the same way as before.

Please don't exclude the "light armor/crossbow/1 slot melee weapon" playstyle for no reason. It's not OP, so there is no reason to nerf it. Rather be happy that some crossbowmen use light armor though they could use heavier stuff without a loss of accuracy. We are easy to kill and die in one swing, max 2 )))

Thanks,
Rico

P.S.: @ all haters who think like Zlisch, read my answer at least.
P.P.S.: @ ALL: If you want more arguments that support my position, but don't have time to read the whole discussion, read page [2] post #8.

[no_rules_just_play]

chocolate chip cookie
+1

[Zlisch_The_Butcher]

Rico while kiting with an xbow is horribly uneffective then it did happen, there were a few xbowmen more than willing to cause a draw (which happened several times) rather than pull out their melee weapon.

[Grumbs]

Lol, so NOT taking a crossbow gains you what exactly? A bit more gold? In terms of builds theres nothing stopping people taking a xbow and losing virtually nothing, except a little mobility and repair costs. You can even use xbows with 1 wpf, but the way wpf works for melee you can have plenty left over to put a decent amount into xbows without worrying about affecting your melee capability.

The weight and repair costs are the only balancing factor atm to make people think twice about carrying one around with their melee build

[Rico]

I don't agree, Zlisch. When you kite as a crossbowman, you don't have a chance to reload the xbow anyway unless u run for like 2 minutes. This is why your delaying crossbowman on Eu1 did not kite to shoot again, but to run away. And someone who is running away anyway can drop xbow and bolts easily and keep running, delaying or causing a draw. So this is not an argument why the xbow and bolt weight should be increased.

Try a lil utility analysis: Making crossbows and bolts heavier makes light armor xbowmen useless.
+ positive: the guy running away on Eu1 has to drop his xbow before he starts running, so either it's still a draw, or he dies in a lil more pityful way without his favorite weapon in his hands.
- negative: more tincan xbows; some of them do not even want to play like this. These guys (including me) suffer from the change.

Who the hell wouldn't want to get the old xbow/bolts weight back??

[Rico]

@Grumbs:

Crossbows are fucking expensive and they break like every round when you don't have wpf. This is why not everyone uses crossbows, or did you see a server full of guys, and EVERYONE had a crossbow in addition to his melee weapon?

Besides, you will  only equip the really good crossbows (heavy/arbalest) when you are fine with just one slot for your melee weapon. So please, think twice before you complain.

[Grumbs]

People don't all take xbow because they don't want to play sniper wars in a medieval combat game.

The actual balance is poor..the 1 slot xbows simply cost a bit at round end or weigh you down a bit. Ideally you would have to spend some points away from melee stuff to have your ranged build

As it is now I still see people kiting plenty if they play a dedicated xbow build, if you don't play dedicated then you should stop and fight in melee

[Leshma]

Veselov is responsible for that.

[Rico]

@Grumbs
Everyone is exploiting the shit out of this game anyway, so disliking sniper-gameplay is not the reason why not everyone uses a xbow. The reason why people without xbow wpf don't use xbows is the high repair cost. Besides, you can call it sniper only when you are accurate, and with 1 wpf, you are not accurate.

Did you listen? I don't want this for kiting, but for more "effective althetics" in melee combat. So don't tell me how to handle my hybrid build.

[Grumbs]

You get less than 10 weight extra, thats like saying someone who goes in heavy armour rather than medium then has useless speed in melee. People don't even take as much ath as some xbow users in the first place. If you take double ammo then you will have to shoot all round to make use of it anyway, and you should get some down sides in melee

No you just can't have your cake and eat it too. Deal with it. If its such a hassle and you don't intend to go kiting then drop the xbow until you kill the other guy

[Knitler]

make somethign realistic and between.

[Malaclypse]

The weight is pretty ridiculous.

 For a crossbow and two stacks of Steel Bolts it's 13.5 (an individual Steel Bolt weighs .41, almost the same as Hatchet, Wooden Sword, or Sickle, and there are twelve of them); if we assume a melee weapon of 2 weight we wind up with 15.5 for weapons alone.

For an Arbalest user that weight changes to 9.3 + an assumed 2 weight sidearm for a total of 11.3.

...whereas I can go into battle with a shield (Elite Cav), hoplite weapon (Red Tassel) and a 1-hand (Iberian Mace) and get away with only 9.5 weight from it.

Even someone who's using a Great Maul plus a Warhammer, both fully heirloomed for more weight, will be at 11.5 total weapon weight, just marginally above the Arbalest loadout.

[Rico]

@Grumbs

Your whole point (besides the cake) is that
- You want to discourage random (non-crossbow build) people to spawn with crossbows.
- You don't want dedicated crossbowers to kite.

My answer is that
- Most random people already don't spawn with crossbows cuz they are expensive in use without wpf. The few who do use them nevertheless loose a shitload of money, so laugh at these fools.
- Dedicated crossbowers who kite are not OP just because you are not fast enough to catch them. A crossbower who kites can't do anything at all for like two minutes until he gets far away, able to reload. Laugh at him too, because he does not help his team and does not kill a single person. When you are in battle, wait for some cav to get him. When you are in siege, lure him into a dead end.

It's rock-paper-scissors after all. When you are rock, be happy to beat scissors and accept to be killed by paper. Even a two-hand-hero is not omnipotent.

I want my cake now.

[Pentecost]

This is why not everyone uses crossbows, or did you see a server full of guys, and EVERYONE had a crossbow in addition to his melee weapon?

Maybe it's different over on EU, but 2h/crossbow is one of the most popular and effective builds on NA. During primetime, it's not uncommon to see them turn out in large numbers. Proportionally, I think they actually outnumber archers, lancers, and pikemen these days.

Besides, you will  only equip the really good crossbows (heavy/arbalest) when you are fine with just one slot for your melee weapon.

You say that as though a +3 normal crossbow with +3 steel bolts isn't actually better than the heavy crossbow or arbalest from the standpoint of minmaxing because you can use a greatsword with it.


Regarding crossbow weight specifically: Most archers these days (I am not an archer, by the way) usually drop their bow and arrows when they're about to enter a melee. If the weight of your crossbow and bolts is really that much of a problem, why don't you just do the same before you whip out your sidearm?

[Grumbs]

Metaclypse, comparing it to melee equipment is missing the point of the weight increase

Its to reduce kiting and encourage people to stop and fight in melee