Question For EUs

[Arathian]

What are the highest gun restrictions ? How many of these violent crimes were actually done with firearms, how many of those firearms were obtained legally ? Those are the real questions.

In Chicago and NY, the 2 cities in the US with the highest crime rates in the US, it is essentially impossible to obtain legal firearms, unless you are a politician, and had a ban on most types of them (heck, the court had to strike down as unconstitutional like 12 laws recently in Chicago). On the other hand, states with very liberal gun laws, like Texas and New Mexico, have the lowest violent crime rates in the US. These are simple facts Kafein...you can't really dispute them.

Also, Switzerland isn't one of the countries with the lowest crime rates because the gun laws are laxist, duh. You know, I could show you graphs of the average temperature during the south african summer the same years as new rambo movie releases and make a correlation between the temperature and the size of rambo's shirt on the dvd case. Any reasonable human being would see a pattern here.

What you say might or might not be true, however it definitevely doesn't help the correlation that guns "produce" crime. You might argue that less pirates cause global warming, but the definitevely can't argue that less pirates cause global cooling since there are now both less pirates and more heat....

....I am not sure if you get my analogy, but hey, pastafarian references.

[Artyem]

You guys can calm down, I'm not supporting the reason why we have the second amendment still, I'm simply stating why it's been in place at all.  However, apparently no one has the reading comprehension to understand anything else I wrote so gloopdeglopbeboop

[Overdriven]

In Chicago and NY, the 2 cities in the US with the highest crime rates in the US, it is essentially impossible to obtain legal firearms, unless you are a politician, and had a ban on most types of them (heck, the court had to strike down as unconstitutional like 12 laws recently in Chicago). On the other hand, states with very liberal gun laws, like Texas and New Mexico, have the lowest violent crime rates in the US. These are simple facts Kafein...you can't really dispute them.

Could that be more to do with environmental factors as it were. Chicago and New York are both big cities. Cities are breeding grounds for crimes. Texas's biggest city has a population of 2 million whilst New York has 8.2 million, mind you Chicago is 2.7 million. New Mexico is hardly worth mentioning with its biggest city being 550k. I'd put those crime rates down far more to that than the gun laws themselves. Although Chicago is perhaps questionable.

[Casimir]

In Chicago and NY, the 2 cities in the US with the highest crime rates in the US, it is essentially impossible to obtain legal firearms, unless you are a politician, and had a ban on most types of them (heck, the court had to strike down as unconstitutional like 12 laws recently in Chicago). On the other hand, states with very liberal gun laws, like Texas and New Mexico, have the lowest violent crime rates in the US. These are simple facts Kafein...you can't really dispute them.


What you say might or might not be true, however it definitevely doesn't help the correlation that guns "produce" crime. You might argue that less pirates cause global warming, but the definitevely can't argue that less pirates cause global cooling since there are now both less pirates and more heat....

....I am not sure if you get my analogy, but hey, pastafarian references.

correlation =/= cause and effect

[Kafein]

In Chicago and NY, the 2 cities in the US with the highest crime rates in the US, it is essentially impossible to obtain legal firearms, unless you are a politician, and had a ban on most types of them (heck, the court had to strike down as unconstitutional like 12 laws recently in Chicago). On the other hand, states with very liberal gun laws, like Texas and New Mexico, have the lowest violent crime rates in the US. These are simple facts Kafein...you can't really dispute them.

Like Overdriven said, I believe crime is much more influenced by environmental/social factors than gun laws. Poor people living in residential towers  will definetly have more crimes than rich people in suburbs.

What you say might or might not be true, however it definitevely doesn't help the correlation that guns "produce" crime. You might argue that less pirates cause global warming, but the definitevely can't argue that less pirates cause global cooling since there are now both less pirates and more heat....

....I am not sure if you get my analogy, but hey, pastafarian references.

What I was trying to say is that there is no necessary correlation when two data plots match, which we seem to agree upon.

[Molly]

In the end it's pretty simple really:
The easier it is to obtain a firearm, the higher is the probability that someone will be shot with it.

Nobody can argue with that.

There is an estimated 300 million (300.000.000) firearms in the USA, barely 30% registered (taken from a newspaper today). Honestly, I think they are more but...

[djavo]

Wait theres more.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/12/13/bulls-fans-shot-after-win_n_2294164.html
and more
and more

[Teeth]

There is probably tons of scientists that have researched the supposed relation between firearm regulation and crimes committed with firearms with actual solid empirical backing. Someone go find one and quote it because this discussion in here is pretty meaningless.

[Cepeshi]

There are tons and tons of people dying daily due to even stupider reasons and i do not see the internet weeping for them. Get real guys. E-mourning? Not cool if you didnt even know the people.

[Casimir]

Are you really complaining about people who are expressing grief over a massacre of children? That's one fucked up psychology you've got there, shame on you.

[Vibe]

So apparently the killer was a sperg with a room full of PC's that were confiscated to find out if someone over internet motivated him to do it. On top of that, his mother was 21.12.2012 brainwashed and supposedly supplied guns to herself and her sperg son to "protect" themselves from the coming end of the world.

Either way, the blame is on violent video games again lol, who would've thought.

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[Teeth]

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I am a horrible person, I laughed

[Cepeshi]

Are you really complaining about people who are expressing grief over a massacre of children? That's one fucked up psychology you've got there, shame on you.

I am more complaining that people care more about some random children massacred by some psycho instead of, dunno, kids starving in Africa (cliche, but still), addicted newborns and whatnot. There is so much shit happening i just could not care anymore.


We recently had a case of methanol alcohol in regular booze killing people or making them blind in the better case. Few guys from my hometown died from getting booze off shop i walked by every day. That made me sad, cause it happened close to me. But you dont see me e-mourning, that doesnt help anyone. If my kid got shot, the last thing i would want to see is everyone talking about it. Cynical? Maybe.

[Vibe]

I am a horrible person, I laughed

Lmfao.

I am a horrible person as well. I'm reading a bunch of comments on the new "he did it because of violent video games" statement on a local newspage and laughing. Someone wrote:

"I'm obsessed with Monopoly, but i'm still not a millionaire "

[Casimir]

I am more complaining that people care more about some random children massacred by some psycho instead of, dunno, kids starving in Africa (cliche, but still), addicted newborns and whatnot. There is so much shit happening i just could not care anymore.


We recently had a case of methanol alcohol in regular booze killing people or making them blind in the better case. Few guys from my hometown died from getting booze off shop i walked by every day. That made me sad, cause it happened close to me. But you dont see me e-mourning, that doesnt help anyone. If my kid got shot, the last thing i would want to see is everyone talking about it. Cynical? Maybe.

Yea the world full of shit, well done.  Doesn't make it wrong for people to express grief over something no matter whether it directly affects them or not.  Just because people have no direct connection with the victims doesn't mean they can't feel grief over the loss of life.  I'm not 'e-mourning' simply saying that people have a right to if they wish, and you shouldn't tell people not to.