Should the Strategus Viewer be allowed?

[Lt_Anders]

EDIT:the different options for the poll in the other thread had been changed in the middle of that discussion, therefor the actual opinions behind those options to chose from may differ from the last stated options.

Yes and No. I only added in the chadz Post but didn't change the meaning of the other 3.

[Aderyn]

It should be allowed and added as a standard tool for everyone. (after proper beta-testing)

[Hoppster]

the options on this poll are pretty stupid

[Cosmos_Shielder]

Should we Cut Zlisch Tongue?
lmfao so many people talking about this tool whereas they don't even know half its feature. Anyway last word goes to chadz and you can all go fuck yourselves

[Zlisch_The_Butcher]

Should we Cut Zlisch Tongue?
lmfao so many people talking about this tool whereas they don't even know half its feature. Anyway last word goes to chadz and you can all go fuck yourselves

However, if the community as a whole decides that they don't want this to be allowed, I will accept this and outlaw usage of the data like this.

-chadz.
That's chadz word, Cosmos go fuck yourself.

[KaMiKaZe_JoE]

I don't see anything wrong with it, really. It does give the user an advantage, yes, but technically it's just systematizing (lemme just throw that word around w/o knowing what it means) what can already be done informally. Person A can just tell person B who/what he sees. The information is still available to person B, it's just a pain in the ass to get it.

At least, I think that how it works. Fuck strat.

It actually sounds like something that should be implemented in strat officially. Shared LOS between faction-mates? Yeah buddy!

[Zlisch_The_Butcher]

Bump.

[Turboflex]

I personally don't think tools that allow you to see what others in your faction see should be allowed.  If that's the case, then we should pack it up and turn this into a single player game.

If they want to make it easier to communicate what you see with your leaders, they can implement tools for that directly into strategus (like "officers orders" or a messaging system that doesn't require you to use the main c-rpg site).  Or allow a user to easily send a screen cap to their officers.

But I think that removing the need for people in the faction to communicate what they see to their higher-ups, is a bad thing.  It removes the fog of war even more.

And going one step farther, I whole-heartedly disagree with the dev's decision in strat 4 to allow fief information to be seen no matter how far away from the fief you are.  I think it should be like strat 3, you have to be relatively close to see fief information.

God forbid you'd actually need a scout or a messenger or a reason to use diplomacy for trading (or gathering information).

Strat has enough tedious micromanagement already, you seriously want more? I spent an hour overhauling a single fief's inventory yesterday.

I am really glad players like dodnet and kinngrimm are working on enhancing the strat GUI cuz we know the devs don't always have the time or inclination too, and the GUI still has a long way to go.

Obviously it's not great if some limited circle of people have access to an enhanced GUI which gives them advantages, cuz strat is a competitive game, but it's also a beta and when dodnet & kinngrimm's stuff is more polished hopefully the devs can integrate it into the regular webpage.

[CrazyCracka420]

Having a GUI that one person can use to control everything the faction members below him do, will add more micromanagement to the game, not less...

That's the whole point of delegating tasks and responsibilities to people.

So you want to be able to not only tell one of your underlings to "go here and do this" but you want to also be their eyes and ears while they move on the map, carrying out your orders?

That just seems, wrong....to me anyways.  You could literally have your AFK members (we all have) strategically camp parts of the map, going inactive for 2 months at a time, and you should be able to see everything they see, and essentially have a live view of what's going, when you're literally doing nothing to scout the area?  How "easy" are we trying to make this for the leaders?  Why not just allow them to issue orders for members and the member automatically starts doing it?

Managing your own inventory, or a fief's inventory is extremely painful, but this GUI doesn't address that, as far as I know, and if it does, that part would perfectly acceptable in my eyes.  Being able to automatically see what any of your members see is just lame as hell.  Sure it make's everyone's job easier, but so does being able to see fief information from 300,000 meters away, but that's lame as fuck too...

You know in single player warband, if you enable cheats, and then ctrl+click anywhere on the map, you automatically teleport there.  Sure it makes playing the game much easier, but is that what you really want?

[kinngrimm]

(click to show/hide)

Having a GUI that one person can use to control everything the faction members below him do, will add more micromanagement to the game, not less...

That's the whole point of delegating tasks and responsibilities to people.

So you want to be able to not only tell one of your underlings to "go here and do this" but you want to also be their eyes and ears while they move on the map, carrying out your orders?

That just seems, wrong....to me anyways.  You could literally have your AFK members (we all have) strategically camp parts of the map, going inactive for 2 months at a time, and you should be able to see everything they see, and essentially have a live view of what's going, when you're literally doing nothing to scout the area?  How "easy" are we trying to make this for the leaders?  Why not just allow them to issue orders for members and the member automatically starts doing it?

Managing your own inventory, or a fief's inventory is extremely painful, but this GUI doesn't address that, as far as I know, and if it does, that part would perfectly acceptable in my eyes.  Being able to automatically see what any of your members see is just lame as hell.  Sure it make's everyone's job easier, but so does being able to see fief information from 300,000 meters away, but that's lame as fuck too...

You know in single player warband, if you enable cheats, and then ctrl+click anywhere on the map, you automatically teleport there.  Sure it makes playing the game much easier, but is that what you really want?

The viewer doesn't give you ALL the available data which the singled out player can see within his spotting range, the status of the party lightly/armed/heavy/shiny is not included as well the crates aren't shown as several other things. You can't engage with these additional dots on the map too as a player who has the party in his own spotting range. When we are done with the diplomatic system and alliances would be able to share their data, even less will be transmitted then only the color and the size of the party(not party count) will be shown(and perhaps the last spotted will be reduced from 18 to 6 hours  for that data.

Therefor there is still a need for communication and also some balancing idears are already built in. When this then is combined with the diplomatic system and people like those advantages through that, they then but are openly admitting alliances and by that they are also open for balancing that is aimed for large alliances to reduce somewhat their effectiveness, while at the same time you give every player a few of the advantages of account sharing and multi accounting, which by that then those real cheats( which majorly also are effective because of their economic power, no advantages there through strat viewer) would be deminished in comparison to those who use strat viewer(or later the implemented version)

I can't see what afk dudes see, they need to be logged in on the strategus website as well on the strat viewer website. When this would be implemented on strategus website. I will talk to Guika to get something done that frequently autorealod of the site would either shutdown the strat viewer account or something similar.

The leaders are also just people who sometimes what to have a life, so yes making it easier for them is as valid as for "only" faction members if you want to make a difference there, in my mind but i am looking for enhancements to reduce micromangement for everyone.

After the diplomatic system, we wil lfirst work on a graphical represantation of it and fine tune it, then later on another graphical layer which gives you an area of influence overview and then also it is planned to rework the Weapons/Armory tab. This all but will take a long time til lwe reach those points, as atm the main guys is only Guika, we are still looking for additional programmers out of the community to join our project, doesn't matter what or if a clan member, that would speed up our progress and may perhaps reassure you guys that there is no bad code would be involved as that guy may also work closely on our database and the serve side code(which btw is already published and open for everybody to read and implement on their own servers).

[GuiKa]

I don't see anything wrong with it, really. It does give the user an advantage, yes, but technically it's just systematizing (lemme just throw that word around w/o knowing what it means) what can already be done informally. Person A can just tell person B who/what he sees. The information is still available to person B, it's just a pain in the ass to get it.

At least, I think that how it works. Fuck strat.

It actually sounds like something that should be implemented in strat officially. Shared LOS between faction-mates? Yeah buddy!

It's like world of warcraft's addons for aggro meter or healing tools. At first Blizzard was against these and was banning people for using it before they understand it was a good thing.

[Zlisch_The_Butcher]

It's like world of warcraft's addons for aggro meter or healing tools. At first Blizzard was against these and was banning people for using it before they understand it was a good thing.

Here it's exactly the opposite, at first donkey crew sits back and allows you to use it, then hopefully they'll realize it's a bad thing and ban people who don't stop using it.

[Zlisch_The_Butcher]

Bump.

[Harpag]

No - because of fog of war.

[kinngrimm]

No - because of fog of war.

Fog of war is included indirectly through less information that is provided already.
When you look at other strategy games, Fog of war is only there where you wouldn't have your own troops, this is pretty much the same here. When i look at my map atm, besides where i am myself i only see additional information in 2 other areas on the map and that also not regularly but depending when those lads are logging into the strat viewer page and into strategus.