pikewalls

[no_rules_just_play]

i know alot of people will not like this as pikes are hard enough already, but i think that pike formation are a little bit too easy to attack atm.

(dont kill me please)

when you charge at a pike wall now, you can just downblock all the pikes and run trough making the pike wall useless as they have to spread out and turn around to you. This is, in my opinion, not realistic or logical. in the medieval times, pikewalls were a good defence and shouldnt have to fall in pieces because one stupid shielder/onehander decided to run trough it (he would get a thousand pointy sticks poking trough his belly).

so here is my idea: why dont we make it that there is a chance that you are not able to block more than two stabs at the same time (offcourse the chance that you are not able to block the incoming attacks increases when the number of spears stabbing you at the same time goes up) this would mean that it is possible for pikers to keep their formation like shielders can with their shieldwall.

1 pike: 100% chance for block                                      /
2 pikes at same time: 50% chance for block                 /-> ok maybe some people wont agree with these numbers, but atleast they are a little bit more realistic, anyway you might increase the chance to
3 pikes: 25%                                                                /     block multiple attacks at the same time by increasing a certain skill (like weapon master or agility)
4 pikes: 12%                                                                /

OK I GET THAT THIS WILL GET THE GAME TOTALLY OUT OF BALANCE and that people will say it is op, but i really think this is the best option to make pikewalls more valid and more realistic. atm they are only good against cav, but no single cavalry player is so stupid to charge that wall. I also think there should be an option to make these pikewalls have a vulnerable spot (like making them very easy to flank or making it so that this only happens when the pikers are not moving)

[zagibu]

It's worth considering. Could also make it that each successful block goes back to ready animation even if held, so that in order to block the same direction twice, you would have to do the movements twice.

This will of course change the gameplay a lot, and awesome one against ten group fights will become a bit less awesome. But it would certainly buff one and two directional weapons, that's correct.

[no_rules_just_play]

it would certainly buff one and two directional weapons, that's correct.

shhhhh! dont say that! the twohanders can hear us! the walls have ears...

edit: its is indeed a buff, so i think there should be a way to only buff the pikewalls without buffing the pikes itself (as i think it doesnt need a change atm)

[Pentecost]

i think that pike formation are a little bit too easy to attack atm.

Don't know how it is over in EU, but I have seen massed pikes on defense supported by 2h and cavalry used to great effect in several major Strategus battles on NA. Your suggestion would make it so that attacking a pike formation head-on (which you may well have to do depending on the terrain and whether or not you're in danger of running out of time) is basically impossible unless you have a lot of shielders or ranged.

[CrazyCracka420]

Yeah I don't like the suggested idea, but I +1'ed for the sentiment.  On NA strat battles pikes and long spears kick ass for fighting infantry or cavalry. 

I think the only thing that should be done is to add an "up" stab on the pikes/long spears so that you stab overhand and towards their heads.  That way you can't just block down to always block a stab, you have to account for if it's overhand or regular stab.  I know Nord Invasion does this, and was discussed in this game previously, but was shot down.

[no_rules_just_play]

you cannot call these 'formations' a shieldwall is a formation, an archer line is a formation but a bunch of pikemen jumping back and forth, trying to stay away from the enemy and pressing the S key all the time isnt.

this is what happens in warband: at 1.50 the enemy cav smashes into the perfect formation. after that the pikemen have to leave their formation or switch to different weapons in order to survive.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H8ABQ1PPCNo
 (sorry cant get youtube video working)

this is what it should be:

notice the fact that 'agibuilds' are their weak spot

[Kafein]

Would maybe be balanced with noblock pikes.

[CrazyCracka420]

It'd be nice if all weapons were able to deal damage even if not being swung/stabbed, so if people run into your pike, they hurt themselves, also then you could code something like "bracing pikes" into the game.  I just don't see that happening though.

There's a lot that would make the game much better (but would require balancing) like brace-able polearms.  Or archers having spikes for cavalry defense, or cavalry being able to dismount before coming to a stop, or plate armor actually protecting against ranged (unless hit in the right spot), or against cutting weapons.  Or horses not running into walls (I can see them running off a cliff or into a pike wall if they were well trained, but I really can't imagine a horse running into a wall no matter how much training it's had).   Lots of things would make the game better and more realistic, but a lot of them are just not feasible to implement.

[Teeth]

Byzantium longspear squad approves!

[no_rules_just_play]

Byzantium longspear squad approves!

no shit!

[fdaslan]

Wolves spear team approves!

[no_rules_just_play]

Wolves spear team approves!

impossibru wolves only have superfast steel picks and a huscarl shield. dont try to fool me!

[Warham]

awesome idea

[Arathian]

As a bundle of sticks using a maul:

it is a good idea, upboated etc.

In the end of the day, pikes are supposed to be team weapons and I would support buffing their team functionality

HOWEVER my single request is to kind of nerf the roflcopterstab that pikes can currently do. It is both not really realistic and buggy (you can stab someone in places where your body isn't located at due to an animation weirdness)

So yeah, buff group use of pikes, nerf 1v1. Make them THE group weapon.

(click to show/hide)

And seriously, if you want to 1v1, you can always get a spear or a poleaxe, it isn't like there aren't choices.

[Tydeus]

Here's a better idea: Remove skill from the game, as it hinders fun. Here's how I imagine it works: First we're going to have to cut compatibility with the old client and move everyone to the beta, we don't need the dx7 guys anyway so w/e. Then all cmp has to do, is remove things like chambering, the ability to feint and hold swings and finally(I know it might seem like a bit much on this one), remove the ability to block, entirely.

What's fun is killing people and everyone blocking my attacks is clearly keeping me from having fun, therefore I conclude that this is the best possible way we can currently improve crpg and strategus.

(click to show/hide)

Pikes are strong enough as is, lets be realistic here. Pikes and long spears completely change the dynamic of melee combat to the point where many people believe they harm melee more than they harm cavalry. Not because pikemen get kills easily, but because it forces the melee to downblock constantly. The simple fact that you stated you already force your enemies to downblock clearly shows what the possible issues are here. You're complaining that this is a bad thing because your team is awful and can't figure out how to utilize the fact that their enemies are downblocking. You're not supposed to get a lot of kills, you're support you said as much yourself.

Edit:

(click to show/hide)

Please tell me you just didn't think about this enough before you posted it. You're asking that we make a team of literally nothing but pikemen, become a viable thing. You're asking that we allow 300 length weapons to do nothing but left click the entire time and their enemies could literally not do anything at all if there were 2 pikemen fighting them. Just remove your post, this is a horrendous, gamebreakingly bad idea that will never get implemented, even if you got 200 other crpg idiots that never read your post to +1 it.