So, is Horse Archery Skill really Balanced?

[Joker86]

Kings of KD video 2:04 lancer kills HA what is this shit? A counter? Wtf! (also at 3:06, 3:24)

HAs are known for being great light cavalry hunters, and now you claim their prey is suddenly their counter, because of a single kill in a video where a HA who was only riding around in trot allowed a lancer to approach him from a 45° angle from the front?

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Come on! 3:06 made the same mistake like 2:04, and 3:24 was even standing still.

I can go and dismount most of their cavalry and I've already taken an advantage away from them without getting any kills.

True enough. That's why I focus almost entirely on enemy cavalry. They get very pissed off when you shoot down their horses.

the HA's whole reason to exist is to annoy whining Infantry and enemy cavalry.

The way I choose to play HA tends to be far more aggressive than most HA would go for. I focus more on keeping my teammates safe from enemy lancers, or give a -hopefully- helpful bump to those in need.

Or do you want to say that all classes have a chance of killing their counters? Well, sometimes they don't. Like infantry vs. HA, because the HA needs to make a mistake to allow infantry to kill them, unless we have special circumstances like a hidden inf, HA being out of arrows or something like that.

[Overdriven]

HAs are known for being great light cavalry hunters, and now you claim their prey is suddenly their counter, because of a single kill in a video where a HA who was only riding around in trot allowed a lancer to approach him from a 45° angle from the front?

Come on! 3:06 made the same mistake like 2:04, and 3:24 was even standing still.

Or do you want to say that all classes have a chance of killing their counters? Well, sometimes they don't. Like infantry vs. HA, because the HA needs to make a mistake to allow infantry to kill them, unless we have special circumstances like a hidden inf, HA being out of arrows or something like that.

3:06 got caught on a hill against faster horses. But regardless I am simply saying that any lancer who knows what he's doing can kill an HA. Ranged counter, lancers counter, a decent infantry can counter. Just saying that this bull shit about HA being near invulnerable is a load of crap. A melee would be near invulnerable if he never missed a block. But he will make a mistake and die. Likewise for HA. Most people die because they make a mistake. So pointing out that they make a mistake means bugger all. Fact is saying they don't have counters is a load of crap. When there's a single HA being targeted by multiple lancers it takes a ridiculous amount of awareness to survive it. Even one lancer can kill HA. I used to see Kerrigan and Leed manage it with ease. As well as a number of other lancers.

Infantry it's harder. But most HA barely dent upper medium-high tier armour. So as long as you have protection you don't need to worry to much. Then there's the agi 2h jumping 10ft in the air and several metres forward to slice your head off. There are plenty of ways to counter HA it just takes a brain which apparently many people are lacking.

Fact is yes I love to shoot down cav. But that doesn't mean that's its not fing difficult. When there's a lot of cav it takes a lot of weaving, judging lancers angles and turn rates to survive. 1 lance strike will kill in a cav fight against an HA so one mistake and your dead. Just because we can kill their horses doesn't mean it isn't difficult, especially with the countless enclosed village maps where you have warbows, arbalests, obstacles, hills and infantry to deal with as well.

I will say on open maps the HA's ability against enemy cav is unmatched. And that is where I get my highest scores. But those maps are few and far between in crpg. By open maps I'm talking almost no obstacles like those open desert maps of open plains.

[Joker86]

Just saying that this bull shit about HA being near invulnerable is a load of crap. A melee would be near invulnerable if he never missed a block. But he will make a mistake and die. Likewise for HA. Most people die because they make a mistake.

 Fact is saying they don't have counters is a load of crap. When there's a single HA being targeted by multiple lancers it takes a ridiculous amount of awareness to survive it. Even one lancer can kill HA. I used to see Kerrigan and Leed manage it with ease. As well as a number of other lancers.

That's not my definition of a counter. Someone who can kill you as soon as you make a mistake is not a counter. Someone who needs to make a mistake to NOT kill somebody is a counter.

For example the mistake already happened when being chased by several lancers. Of course it's difficult to be aware of several opponents at the same time.

And honestly, a single lancers can't do a HA any harm when he is aware, unless the difference in riding skill and horse speed is tremendous. And even then the lancers has no chance when the HA knows what he does.

I played a STF HA for some time, I hope Cris remembers it. In 1 on 1 HA duels I even managed to kill him a few times, which means I am not that terribad, I hope. I used to die only to ranged, the only times when I got killed in melee was when I didn't pay attention as I played carelessly, or when I tried to risk something, just for fun. If you stay at the edges of the map it's not difficult to be aware of your surroundings, just pick off the targets at the very flank, and the further the battle goes on, the more players will be down, until there are only a few scattered survivors, and that's the time when you can ride around and hunt them down. For the first two thirds of the round the biggest skill is not getting any attention for longer time, which is easy as pie if you consider the mobility and the range of HAs.

Infantry it's harder. But most HA barely dent upper medium-high tier armour. So as long as you have protection you don't need to worry to much. Then there's the agi 2h jumping 10ft in the air and several metres forward to slice your head off. There are plenty of ways to counter HA it just takes a brain which apparently many people are lacking.

HA's have longer reach than "several meters" + weapon length... Dying to something like that is 100% avoidable.

________________________________________

I think in the following days I will create a STF HA again and make a few fraps videos, of how a relative HA noob dies most of the time. And yes, of course I will play carefully and defensively, because it's the most effective and thus most annoying way of playing a HA.

[Overdriven]

The best HA's ride close shotgunning their targets to ensure a hit. Improves damage and accuracy. Same tactic is employed against lancers riding at them head on. You need the shot to cancel their attack though and many HA's ride like this out of necessity and the thrill but it does lead to inf being able to kill you if you miss a shot and that is more down to poor accuracy than skill.

Tbh I don't think there are many classes that can counter another directly without one side making the mistake. A 2h gets shot by ranged? Should have stuck with his shielders or noted where the enemy ranged was. Got stabbed up the arse by a lancer? You weren't paying attention. Get shot off your horse. You were to close to enemy ranged and risking to much.

Most people die due to mistakes they make. Sure some classes are better against others but I don't think there are any direct counters as such the way you make them sound. Every class has a chance against another, particularly if skill is taken into account.

Writing this quickly whilst playing dota 2 so might be randomness to it.

[Geon]

By the way, I don't appreciate being misquoted. By that statement I meant overall I like to keep close to friendly infantry, and archers (especially archers). Seeing that archers tend to get bum rushed by enemy cavalry 25 seconds into a round. Or they're targeted by shield walling infantry.

Now look, That's everyone's job. Lancers stab people to dwindle their numbers, shield guys go after archers (or protect their 2h/polearm guys from arrows/bolts). My job is to shoot those oncoming shielders in the side or at least run them over.

Take HA away from the picture and you pretty much  just have archers trying to kite (except that's a bit harder now with the increased arrow weight...), and eventually getting steel-picked most likely. By no means am I invulnerable or do I only die because "I made a mistake". I believe Overdriven covered that pretty well.

In regards to fighting enemy cavalry. If it's a big map then there's going to be a big storm of horses off in some corner duking it out. You can join in, yeah. However being that HA horses Steppe, Desert, and Arabian (even at Champion) are all SLOWER than the horses commonly used by lancers or 1h/2h cavalry. You will find yourself having a tough time maneuvering away from those 4 or 5 guys that just want you DEAD.

Being a horse archer anywhere is risky you will always be (like any other class) an arrows shot or a stab from behind from death. Every class has their strengths, and weaknesses. Every class has their jobs.

If you're playing 2hander/pole (not using pike). In an open field cav-map then you're asking for a challenge or a fight. Pick up some heavier armor, and go fight the the line. I'll kill you (maybe)  later in the round if I'm still alive. You could still hang out in the open though, but make sure you're near a tree.

TL;DR Nerf Tree hitboxes

[PanPan]

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5 guys in a row killed by HA

Didn't we ban that retard?

[BattalGazi]

Maybe I should also write here something. Like many people said, HA got tremendously nerfed due to rage polls and rage threads, not because of some flaw in the game mechanics. It was of course very natural that such forum requests ended for the favor of HA haters, as this game is mainly played by 2H / pole players. And what a surprise, these classes are of course the natural prey of skilled HA's as they lack protection like a shield in the middle of the field. However, there are many good ways to kill HA's: you can be a light lancer, you can be a skilled archer/thrower, you can be a skilled pole guy or you can be another HA.

I have been playing as a horse archer for about maybe 1 year. My main character is level 34, with 18/24 stats, 6PD, 4 HA, 172 WPF, 8 Riding, 3 PS. Although the heavy and unbalanced repairs, such as you still need to repair your arrows as if your wpf is for nothing, plus the horse repair ( this is a part of the deal of being a cavalry ), I was still enjoying playing as my prey was my natural prey and my predator was my natural predator.

After the nerfs, I fell deep on the levels of the food chain because of my heavily reduced accuracy, reduced drawing speed and recalculated aiming trajectories. This is such a big frustration for a player with horse archers, and even more for whose level is 34, which translates into a considerable amount of time investment.

I hope that one day the HA gets buffed again back to its natural position and I, and many of my fellow cavalry player friends get back to the game.

[papageorgio]

The reason HA sucks is because it does require a lot of skill to hit your target on horseback. I would consider lance cav a counter especially the Kings of KD because we all ride champion coursers. Not too much can out run us. When it comes down to it, it ends up being like a firefight right out of top gun. "To kenny loggins we roll"

We literally herd you like cattle and call right or left so either way you turn, you are shit out of luck. There are very few HA that give me a run for my money. Most of them end up dead on the ground.

[SirCymro_Crusader]

I cry when being HA

I cry when being killed by a HA

[IR_Kuoin]

I cry when being HA

I cry when being killed by a HA

So true Sir Cymro

Trolly Regards

[SirCymro_Crusader]

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[Bonze]

fat idiot broke the thread again

You cant broke a broken thread , its a fact a handful of GK horse my old friendchers rule the server with a very high K/D and all what the thread opener want is the correct ha build.

Torben you sucks,  you are out of date , your golden time is over .Your another loser who cant accept the basic hardcore/grind gaming rules (like the silly thread opener) If you play 24/7,  you dominate the battlefield .If not all ................ look at you  haha
All your shitty Cav threads, all the bawling , the future is GK.
Go,  play stone thrower.

[Cris]

You cant broke a broken thread , its a fact a handful of GK horse my old friendchers rule the server with a very high K/D and all what the thread opener want is the correct ha build.

Torben you sucks,  you are out of date , your golden time is over .Your another loser who cant accept the basic hardcore/grind gaming rules (like the silly thread opener) If you play 24/7,  you dominate the battlefield .If not all ................ look at you  haha
All your shitty Cav threads, all the bawling , the future is GK.
Go,  play stone thrower.

Why would we listen to you, who's signature says

Got no Balls? Play archer. Got no sex? Play horse archer.

Clearly an idiotic post.

For the record, I did play a lot once, I did dominate the battlefield, won all rounds most of the time, then we got super nerfed, then nerf again, again, again, and again. And then nerfed so more. Clearly you dont understand what grinding is.

[Cris]

Bug post

[IR_Kuoin]

You saved that shit?

Fuck

I don't delete my forum messages