So, is Horse Archery Skill really Balanced?

[Yamun]

What is relevant here is that there will always be something that someone else considers OP. The answer isn't for more people to be become archers, but to protect the ones they have already. I will admit the ones that camp and hide are beyond hope... but there are some that follow the melee and try to cover. Prehaps giving them cover as well can help. I actually enjoy killing HA when on foot... be it a bow, throwing axes to their horses, or stabbing with a spear.

On the flip side, being the HA can be frustrating as well because people can't handle dealing with them.. so the class gets nerfed. Aim for the horse... the bloody HA isn't the best on foot. Half the time I am playing my horse archer, I don't even bring my horse with me so I can melee as my dismounted horse archer.

[Grumbs]

If ranged role was to counter cav I wouldn't mind so much a buff to HA. As it stands ranged is a counter to everything and the counter to ranged is simply have better ranged players or more of them. I can protect my ranged, and I do when I feel the need, but melee need to go and play their own role too. It doesn't take much melee to defend your ranged. Its not like they need baby sitting all round. I will when necessary, but usually if I camp near ranged its because I don't want to commit to a fight yet. Melee needs to push positions as a group when the timing is right rather than camp with their ranged for the most part

I would make ranged damage a separate damage type (not cut or pierce) then give melee style armour a separate stat (deflection or absorption) that reduces damage against ranged. Ranged could be anti cav and anti ranged, yet could still able to hold their own against melee weapons. So ranged would do minimal damage to melee and not stagger, but could still have decent protection against cut/pierce like a normal melee guy.

Ranged is the be all end all when it comes to counters. They should counter ranged and cav rather than melee too imo

If this were the case I wouldn't care so much about a HA buff

[Yamun]

In response to your comment to damage of ranged, I agree. This is based on some do so much more that is it unreal. xbows are supposed to do insane amount of damage compared to bows. They already do. This isn't about damage they do but to remove the Horse Archery -10 wpp penalty so HA don't suffer on horseback as badly with their aiming. As it stands now, my character is lvl 30. I'm balanced between melee and archery. Focus is on archery yes, but enough melee points so don't suck as bad. As the opening post mentioned, the reticule is rather high at speeds. Being still or barely moving seems to be best chance to land arrows where we want compared to xbow users and foot archers. Another point to mention, arrows do no damage to heavy armored melee. After 10 arrows.. I and only maybe two show. I rarely SHOOT at melee due to their armor. My arrows can't inflict damage to them. This isn't just plate armor. I ride around and fire at other archers, and cavs.

Strength:15
Agility:20

One Handed:52
Two Handed:1
Polearm:1
Throwing:1
Crossbow:1
Archery:149

Weapon Master:6
Athletics:6
Riding:6
Iron Flesh:0
Shield:0
Horse Archery:3
Power Strike:4
Power Draw:5
Power Throw:0

I use a fine tatar bow with tatar arrows. Wasting arrows on melee ground troops in their armor isn't worth it for me. I do no damage to them as a horse archer. Best I can do is annoy them.

Edit: This is also assuming can hit now with full speed after the nerf lol. I do use a Steppe Horse. I know others use higher classed and speed horses, but maneuvering is bit more important than speed with all the lancers and archers aiming at me.

[Kafein]

To all HA here : I am not complaining about an HA buff, I am commenting on the stupidity of berserkadin.

What I said in my previous post are statements that I think apply no matter what the situation of HA is. At the moment HA are UP so I'm fine with an HA buff. I'm not fine however, with 10 HA roaming a battle server, cause that's simply not fun for everybody else playing. But we haven't reached this point back yet so do whatever you want.

[Rumblood]

To all HA here : I am not complaining about an HA buff, I am commenting on the stupidity of berserkadin.

What I said in my previous post are statements that I think apply no matter what the situation of HA is. At the moment HA are UP so I'm fine with an HA buff. I'm not fine however, with 10 HA roaming a battle server, cause that's simply not fun for everybody else playing. But we haven't reached this point back yet so do whatever you want.

10 cavalry swarming an infantryman with constant horse bumps isn't any fun either, but since the game is called Mount and Blade, your arguments are pre-pwned, else there would be crying about them too!

[Tindel]

As far as I'm concerned anyone who hasn't played HA since the nerfs, let alone ever, should have no part in this discussion. We are ruining your fun? Well you are ruining ours by constantly moaning and demanding nerfs so HA is UP. There are hardly any HA and I bet you get shot by an HAs arrow as melee maybe once in a several hour play through. I certainly never notice them as melee. Therefore it really shouldn't be an issue for the smallest buff. Complaining so much just demonstrates how sore you are over it.

As for those saying zomg but this is a melee focused game. It isn't. Its a medieval era war game. That encompasses every aspect of that era. If it was meant to be melee focused it would be. Just because there's directional combat does not in any way make it the focus of thhe game. Plenty of people would play it even if there wasn't a full directional system. I don't know any other game that includes HA like this so to me, that is the unique selling point to me as a person. Yours is melee, mine is HA. Both are as valid.

So is a tiny buff really that bad? Its not extra damage, its only slightly more accuracy. I get the feeling a lot of guys are coming in here and complaining without even looking at the OP. As a result this has gone way beyond the OPs idea. Its simply become a hate against HA thread because we are scared of them getting to much damage and killing everyone and everything. Such an idea is idiotic. Its a small balance change that would be nice and is needed for HA but that I doubt anyone not playing HA would ever notice.

Kiting archers was a big problem and everyone thought it was terribly unfun, except of course the archers themselves. They got a nerf that made them slow as hell because ammo now has alot of weight.

What is a HA if not a SUPER-kiting archer?  A infantry class has zero chance to kill one,  at least melee cav has to get in range to fight, thus giving the infantry guy a chance to retaliate.
This is why only HA players want HA buffs, and everyone else really doesnt. And considering the extremly low % of HA players, compared to the rest of the population, im asking you once again.

What is best for the game as a whole? Because having a HA class that is actually effective, without any form of counterclass whatsoever, has a really negative impact on the game and the community as a whole.

[Overdriven]

The counter to HA should be more ranged? Always the counter to ranged is more ranged. Its whats killing the game. The counter to ranged should be that arrows don't penetrate melee armour so well, so ranged kills each other or other horses

O please. Ranged is not killing the game or it would have been dead when I first joined when archers were ultra accurate and fast compared to now. There are less players for a whole host of reasons, largely because this is a bloody old game in reality. Add to the fact that people here have played 1000's of hours of crpg and naturally they are going to stop at some point. It has 0 to do with how much ranged there are in servers.

Kiting archers was a big problem and everyone thought it was terribly unfun, except of course the archers themselves. They got a nerf that made them slow as hell because ammo now has alot of weight.

What is a HA if not a SUPER-kiting archer?  A infantry class has zero chance to kill one,  at least melee cav has to get in range to fight, thus giving the infantry guy a chance to retaliate.
This is why only HA players want HA buffs, and everyone else really doesnt. And considering the extremly low % of HA players, compared to the rest of the population, im asking you once again.

What is best for the game as a whole? Because having a HA class that is actually effective, without any form of counterclass whatsoever, has a really negative impact on the game and the community as a whole.

HA has tons of counters and if people keep insisting they don't they need to follow some HA around or play some alts and focus on killing them. It's no where near as hard as people make out. All you need is 1 decent hit (speed bonus insta death) or 2 warbow arrows.

The problem isn't that HA don't have counters. The problem is that the players who can counter them don't see them as a big enough threat, or see them as to difficult a target to bother with. That is why HA frequently survive till the end. If even 1 archer on a team made it his game to shoot down an HA's horse he could do so within a few arrows, particularly if the speed bonus was there. The make up of the maps means that's there's plenty of tight spots to catch an HA in villages ect as well for melee. There's no real excuse.

Best for the game as a whole is to give a little buff to HA. It'll help us out and you won't even notice it so don't spit some bollocks about it having a negative impact. HA suffered a long time ago and has sucked it up with minimal complaining, unlike most of the other classes here. So why not have a little buff for HA? There are few enough of us. The reason most people don't want it is because they've only been on the receiving end, never the other way around. I've done both so at least I'm in a position to comment.

O and just because other HA are posting their builds...

Level 31
Strength:16
Agility: 24

One Handed: 12 (for the lols)
Archery: 172

Weapon Master: 8
Riding: 7
Horse Archery: 4
Power Draw: 5

Mine is a pure accuracy build pretty much the same as Cris bar the PS.

[Joker86]

Well, I am actually not against removing the 10-WPF-penalty per HA point (or whatever the mechanic is, as long as it is of about the same extend like this one here). I am okay with it.

But please stop telling us that we won't feel it:

EITHER we won't feel any difference because you will still have crappy accuracy, so you don't hit us more than before, which means it didn't help you at all,

OR it will help you by improving your hit rate, which means we will feel the difference.


It is okay for me to buff your WPF a bit, all I want is you to stop with the "it doesn't make a difference" bullshit. EVERYTHING makes a difference. Yeah, tweaking some stats by tiny values is indeed a tiny change, but do it a few times and you will have some moderate changes.

[Overdriven]

No you won't feel it. As I said before you probably get shot by or encounter an HA as a melee once in a play time of a couple of hours. Unless you're one of those who consistently rambo's and gets caught unaware, if you play with the team, and the servers populated I doubt you'll notice the difference as most HA spread their arrows. Sure it'll hopefully improve hit rate in a 1vs1 situation but these are rare and the arrows already do little damage, especially if you have higher tier armour. So that's why I said you won't notice it. Because I really doubt any 1 player will except for the HA who's doing the shooting.

[Overdriven]

Double post but worth it:

Just joined server for the first time in months and get shot down off my horse by 3 arrows from a Rus Bow at considerable range. So much for HA not having counters.

[Chagan_Arslan]

A infantry class has zero chance to kill one

i call bullshit, how about this

you pick a horse archer, i pick a melee guy, they go to a server that is setup just like eu_1, best of 3 rounds

if the melee guy that i picked wins 2 rounds you pay him 500k gold, if the horse archer that you picked wins 2 rounds i will pay him 500k gold, your up for a bet or will you chicken out and stop spreading your bullshit ?

what will it be Tindel?

[Arrowblood]

i call bullshit, how about this

you pick a horse archer, i pick a melee guy, they go to a server that is setup just like eu_1, best of 3 rounds

if the melee guy that i picked wins 2 rounds you pay him 500k gold, if the horse archer that you picked wins 2 rounds i will pay him 500k gold, your up for a bet or will you chicken out and stop spreading your bullshit ?

what will it be Tindel?

just dont talk with him he plays anyway only siege.

[Kafein]

10 cavalry swarming an infantryman with constant horse bumps isn't any fun either, but since the game is called Mount and Blade, your arguments are pre-pwned, else there would be crying about them too!

Okay so I suppose it's fine to compare 10 cav killing an infantry guy caught alone and in the open, and 10 HA peppering an undefined number of melee enemies.

Besides, I can always retaliate at people trying to bump me, as long as they aren't locking me into blocking, with a bow or xbow. I can't retaliate at ranged without having a ranged weapon myself.

[Falka]

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5 guys in a row killed by HA

[Azlanek]

HA power!