Serious 2h weapon discussion (featuring blunt; Goedendag)

[Shaksie]

Feast your eyes upon the stats;

Goedendag
Type:Two handed weapon
Requirement:10 strength
Weight:2.5
Slots:2
Upkeep:262 gold
Shop price:3,749 gold
Value:1,875 gold
Speed:95
Length:117
Thrust:22 pierce
Swing:25 blunt
Knockdown


Highland Claymore
Type:Two handed weapon
Requirement:16 strength
Weight:3
Slots:2
Upkeep:899 gold
Shop price:12,857 gold
Value:6,429 gold
Speed:92
Length:117
Thrust:22 pierce
Swing:43 cut
Secondary mode


Two Handed Sword
weapon length: 110
weight: 2
difficulty: 12
speed rating: 96
weapon length: 110
thrust damage: 22 pierce
swing damage: 38 cut
slots: 2
Can't use on horseback
Secondary Mode


Poleaxe SECONDARY MODE, apologies but these may be incorrect
Type:Polearm
Requirement:17 strength
Weight:3
Slots:2
Upkeep:1,012 gold
Shop price:14,470 gold
Value:7,235 gold
Speed:87
Length:141
Thrust:31 pierce
Swing:31 blunt                   
Bonus against shield


Let me start off by saying I'm not trying to radically change the Goedendag's stats.
However, it becomes apparent that from seeing other weapon stats that the Goedendag does extremely weak damage.
Take the Highland Claymore's damage for instance; if a player of 24 strength (8 powerstrike), 146 wpf wearing 2 weight helmet, 11 body armor, 0.5 hand armor and 1.5 leg armor strikes an enemy of 45 body armor, they will deal 23-47 damage, achieving an average damage of 35.
However, if this same player hits an enemy with a 25b weapon (the Goedendag for example) it will deal a measly 17-30 damage, achieving an average of 23.5 This is the approximate damage ratio for a Goedendag to a significanlty more expensive, equal length cut weapon.
Take an equal speed weapon for example; the Two Handed Sword. This sword, wielded by the same character versus the same foe will achieve 20-42 damage, achieving an average damage of 31.
This sword also has an increased speed rating, further highlighting it's superiority.
The poleaxe also does significantly more damage, is longer and heavier plus this is the secondary mode, the other mode does even more damage, is only a fraction (in practice) slower than the Goedendag AND has bonus vs shield damage.
I don't believe the difference in prices (Goedendag being 3,749 and Two Handed Sword being 7,965) are fair. Moreover I believe this shows a lack in variety.

I plead of you, either buff the Goedendag or add a high-tier, non-unbalanced blunt (and piercing perhaps, there is an equal lack in those) for two handed weapons.

Possible item addition:
Long Battle Club
Price: ~11500
weapon length: 101
weight: 3.2
difficulty: 15
speed rating: 93
weapon length: 101
thrust damage: 21 blunt
swing damage: 31 blunt
slots: 2
Can't use on horseback
Knockdown

Other non-cut weapons would also be appreciated.


I also have various other ideas which I think it is appropriate to bring to light; a weapon not dissimilar to poleaxes could be introduced into the category two handed weapons.
I have done some serious pondering over this but I think  this weapon could quite easily fit into the game;
German War Axe
weapon length: 101
weight: 2.7
difficulty: 16
speed rating: 90
weapon length: 101
thrust damage: 25 pierce
swing damage: 40 cut
slots: 2
Can't use on horseback
Bonus against shield
Secondary Mode

Secondary Mode stats:
speed rating: 87
thrust damage: 25 pierce
swing damage: 30 pierce
I tried to keep these stats as similar to that of the German Poleaxe but retaining typical two handed values.

To increase diversity; another weapon could be integrated:
Elegant War Axe
weapon length: 103
weight: 2.6
difficulty: 15
speed rating: 92
weapon length: 103
thrust damage: 24 pierce
swing damage: 38 cut
slots: 2
Can't use on horseback
Bonus against shield
Secondary Mode

Secondary Mode stats:
speed rating: 89
thrust damage: 24 pierce
swing damage: 30 blunt
I tried to keep these stats as similar to that of the Elegant Poleaxe but retaining typical two handed values.

Before you say "make models or stfu, I am currently working on attaining the knowledge to create these models myself. However it will probably take some time as clearly, I have never done this before. If someone were to step in and create some before me it would be greatly appreciated

Thank you for reading and I hope you  seriously ponder the above topic .

[Haboe]

Stating the obvious (i know you mentioned it in your post) item request with no models = no chance.
But, since you want to make them yourself, try to get someone with experience to learn you the basics, saves you a lot of time and keeps you motivated ^^

Looking forward to your models 

[Shaksie]

Thank ye, honestly just cutting the bottom bit off the bottom of the aforementioned items and rescaling them to fit would work, not sure how to do the  Long Battle Club though.

[[ptx]]

Goedendag is:
a) lower tier item
b) has knockdown (oh god, the knockdown)
c) has a very, very good speed to length ratio

It is somewhat underused atm, but, really, it is by no means a bad weapon, i've used it myself (and would use it a lot more if i could find someone who would trade me a +3 goedendag).

The weapon you're suggesting sounds rather OP, tbh - non-unbalanced 2h knockdown weapon with decent speed? ye gods...

[LordRichrich]

Goedendag is:
a) lower tier item
b) has knockdown (oh god, the knockdown)
c) has a very, very good speed to length ratio

It is somewhat underused atm, but, really, it is by no means a bad weapon, i've used it myself (and would use it a lot more if i could find someone who would trade me a +3 goedendag).

The weapon you're suggesting sounds rather OP, tbh - non-unbalanced 2h knockdown weapon with decent speed? ye gods...

If the model is made, stats can be suggested and fine tuned around it surely?

[Shaksie]

Goedendag is:
a) lower tier item
b) has knockdown (oh god, the knockdown)
c) has a very, very good speed to length ratio

It is somewhat underused atm, but, really, it is by no means a bad weapon, i've used it myself (and would use it a lot more if i could find someone who would trade me a +3 goedendag).

The weapon you're suggesting sounds rather OP, tbh - non-unbalanced 2h knockdown weapon with decent speed? ye gods...

I know it is a lower tier item, I believe I indirectly referred to that :3.
Yes it is quite long and fast but the damage is horrid, I used it with 7 powerstrike and I rarely got the full blunt connection sounds which indicated a very low damage output.
The damage from Mace and Studded Warclub is worth the length penalty imo.
Also, this thread wasn't just about buffing the Goedendag nor adding a single item, I attempted to point out the lack of variation and choice between 2h weapons. I also feel that fast cut weapons (namely the Heavy Bastard Sword and Longsword) are a little overpowered.

If the model is made, stats can be suggested and fine tuned around it surely?

Indeed, these stats almost certainly won't be the final stats (should it be integrated) but I didn't think they were that bad tbh.

[oprah_winfrey]

The goedendag is the only blunt weapon that uses two hand stab animation and on top of that its balanced. I had a +3 for a while and its a pretty sweet weapon imo.

[Kafein]

If the model is made

/thread


Also the goedendag is OP by most definitions, being one the longest knockdown weapons in the game, and usable with a shield for surprisingly good results. Plus it has an extremely good stab.

[Leshma]

Goegendag isn't OP. Greatsword/Miaodao/Longsword/HBS are the only OP twohanded weapons atm.

[Kafein]

Goegendag isn't OP. Greatsword/Miaodao/Longsword/HBS are the only OP twohanded weapons atm.

Ha yes I forgot. Can't really say an above average weapon is OP when such beasts exist in the same category.

Although of course that doesn't mean the goedendag needs a buff.

[Leshma]

Goedendag is fine. Besides the fac that looks awful.

[Tigero]

The goede used to be the ultimate 2h of cRPG... ye olde times... Fu devs!

[wayyyyyne]

You fail to understand that the goedendag is a budget weapon. It's not supposed to compete with high tier 2handers.
I mean yes the damage is pretty low even though it's blunt. But there's also this thing called knockdown which gives you another free hit every now and then and also the possibility for an infinite knockdown-kick-knockdown-hit-... combo.

I own both a +3 claymore and a goedendag btw

[Torost]

Of all the 2handers. There are really no weapon that is fast that trades length for damage..
If you want hard hitting .. you always have to chose the toptier ones. That always has good length and slow speed.

The morningstar is the closest to this description, but still not there.

Im missing a  fast,short,hardhitting as an option. Maybe an axe or mace.

Maybe a double bit axe?

[[ptx]]

I own both a +3 claymore and a goedendag btw

Give it to me