Steel Shield and Shields Heirlooming.

[Dravic]

Well...

Let's start from shields heirlooming.

We all know, that heirlooming shield is not common. Why? Because it has to low profit. Resistance and hp increase are OK, but:

Almost all weapons receive speed bonus.

But shields don't.

I say: make it so every shield gets +8 to shield's speed at 3rd gen. Won't hurt you too much, and heirlooming (especially slower shields) will become more appealing.

Examples:

Huscarl's Round Shield

weight 9
requirement 4
hit points 410
body armor 19
spd rtng 81
shield width 43
Can't use on horseback
Gen1= 21armour 457hit 83 spd rtng
Gen2= 23armour 473hit 86 spd rtng
Gen3= 25armour 505hit 89 spd rtng

Heavy Board Shield

weight 11
requirement 5
hit points 550
body armor 14
spd rtng 78
shield width 28
shield height 60
Can't use on horseback
Gen1= 16armour 597hit 80 spd rtng
Gen2= 18armour 613hit 83 spd rtng
Gen3= 20armour 645hit 86 spd rtng

Steel Buckler:

weight 2.5
requirement 3
hit points 120
body armor 60
spd rtng 98
shield width 3
shield height 3
Gen1= 62armour 167hit 100 spd rtng
Gen2= 64armour 183hit 103 spd rtng
Gen3= 66armour 215hit 106 spd rtng

Steel Shield:

weight 12
requirement 6
hit points 225
body armor 69
spd rtng 61
shield width 31
Gen1= 71armour 272hit 63 spd rtng
Gen2= 73armour 288hit 66 spd rtng
Gen3= 75armour 329hit 69 spd rtng


___________________________

OK, next thing.

Steel Shield. How the hell axe can break STEEL Shield? Swords, too. The reason why Steel Shield isn't common is, that it slows you down a lot (it's ok for me) but doesn't give you too much. I mean, if you can destroy Steel Shield with an axe... it's same as other shields, but in addition it slows you down.

If you add +20 to Steel Shield's resistance, you can actually fix the problem of it breaking so fast. Either this or add +100hp, but believe me, +20 to resistance will not have ANY, ANY influence on the speed of destroying it with weapons without bonus against shield. If you add 100 hp, it's another 100 hits with swords, if you add 20 resistance, swords will still hit with 1 dmg.

Discuss.

[cutsomecheesewithmybow]

+8 speed is way too much of a bonus - by comparison xbows get a total of +3 speed while bows and swords get +2. Futhermore AFAIK shielders benefit from this bonus aswell (aside form 1h weapons being fast as they are to begin with).

[Dravic]

Yeah, but with +2 to speed you don't see ANY difference. Try to add or remove 2 speed from a shield in native by some item editor, almost invisible difference. Now try to add or remove 8, I am sure you will see the difference.
(I am talking about difference during fight, spd rtng of shield affects feinting, blocking speed and countering enemy's attack [when he hit you and you want to attack him back]...)

[Seawied]

Yeah, but with +2 to speed you don't see ANY difference. Try to add or remove 2 speed from a shield in native by some item editor, almost invisible difference. Now try to add or remove 8, I am sure you will see the difference.
(I am talking about difference during fight, spd rtng of shield affects feinting, blocking speed and countering enemy's attack [when he hit you and you want to attack him back]...)

not to mention that you can increase shield speed without it having anything gamebreaking. Developers have to be careful with weapon speed, since it can lead to out-spamming.


I personally think the steel shield currently costs too much for its worth

[Casimir]

Long maul doesn't receive speed bonus at gen 3.

Your facts are wrong please change.

[Konrax]

I made a post a while ago about making shield heirlooming more appealing and I got ranted on like crazy about how making 1h weapons even faster will somehow break the game.

I completely agree with what you have to say and +1.

Either shields get faster, or their weight is reduced by heirlooming as well so you can get a TANGIBLE benefit for the heirloom since more often then not shields aren't broken in battle.

[Teeth]

Jeez with bucklers with that speed, playing buckler+sidesword will be like playing with a katana without having to manual block.

Edit: Aren't shields good enough? If they get more shield speed theres nothing I can do against a good shielder.

[Christo]

Jeez with bucklers with that speed, playing buckler+sidesword will be like playing with a katana without having to manual block.

Edit: Aren't shields good enough? If they get more shield speed theres nothing I can do against a good shielder.

This.

Damned shields are strong and fast enough. Even as an axeman I have a hard time breaking all these lolskarls and whatever shields I get ganked with..

[Konrax]

Heirlooming a shield gives the following bonus:

More resistance to shield bonus weapons, more shield durability.

It DOES NOT PROVIDE:

Crushthrough resistance, or speed enhancement in any way that would be a more tangible bonus for heirlooming.

As it is now heirlooming a shield is not appealing to this supposedly overpowered tool.

If anything I would rather trade the extra durability for speed since that would actually make a difference in my fights as opposed to appealing to turtles.

[Dravic]

Decreasing weight, on the other hand, decreases crush through resistance. Spd rtng should be increased with heirlooms!

[BlackMilk]

Heavy Board Shield

weight 11
requirement 5
hit points 550
 

[Dravic]

body armor 14
 


such a "body armor" doesn't give you too much protection vs weapons. Against axes, honestly, it doesn't give you... anything!

and if you want to see something funny...

Fur Covered Shield
weight 7
requirement 4
hit points 600
body armor 5
spd rtng 76
shield width 24
shield height 50
3,030 gold
weight 7
requirement 4
hit points 600
body armor 5
spd rtng 76
shield width 24
shield height 50
Gen1=  7armour 647hit
Gen2=  9armour 663hit
Gen3= 11armour 695hit

5 body armor. How scary! Even sword beats such an armor...

And look how BAD bonuses it gets. +100 to hp at 3rd GEN! That's a JOKE with such a low body armor. Actually, with THIS shield, there is NO point in heirlooming it. even basic bonuses are REALLY weak, and with 3rd gen it still is really bad shield, with 76spd rtng it's really bad for dueling and everything destroys it in few hits (because there isn't any armor to protect this shield from peasant's hits.)

[Opium.dk]

Whats the difference between hitpoints and armor on shields?

[Elmetiacos]

It's the same as for characters.

[Dravic]

Hit points are something like health of your character, but apply to shield.

Shield resistance (armor of shield) is working same as armor of your character, except few facts (proved by devs of cRPG):

- dmg type doesn't matter, when counting dmg reduction due to shields resistance
- shields resistance works same as armor of characters, it means that game mechanics roll the amount of res from its 50% to 100% and that given amount decreases dmg of enemy hitting your shield
- damage that pass the shields resistance decreases hit points of your shield
- even, if shield can't take more dmg (thus is destroyed), no dmg passes through your shield into your CHARACTERS health and armor.