Please remove chambering + hilt slashing

[Uumdi]

Add pepper spray and rape whistles.

[Kafein]

I dislike hiltslash because is makes fight looks stupid. It's more effective to have your enemy be slight behind your shoulder than in front of you, which is unrealistic. Hiltslashing should still work, but the damage should be reduced proportional to how early in the animation it hits.

I liken it to tennis; if you make contact with the ball in front of you, your racquet head speed is at a maximum and you impart a lot of energy to the ball. Sometime you swing late with the ball close to you, and you don't get any depth on the shot. The cRPG implementation is the exact opposite of real-world physics.

This.

[Spa_geh_tea]

This.

Agrees

[Rumblood]

I dislike hiltslash because it makes fights look stupid. It's more effective to have your enemy be slightly behind your shoulder than in front of you, which is unrealistic. Hiltslashing should still work, but the damage should be reduced proportional to how early in the animation it hits.

Actually you are mistaken. It would be more effective with the current placement slightly behind your shoulder as you drag the entire length of the blade across the naked skin. However, an armored player should take 0 damage because you wont be cutting shit, no matter how long the blade you drag across it.

[Miley]

Oh man Siberian, you're farming the minus 1's aren't you x.x

[Butan]

Hiltslashing should still work, but the damage should be reduced proportional to how early in the animation it hits.

It already does...

There is a lot more chances the attack will glance / do low damage in the early part of the animation.



Not saying there isnt a "late" part of the hiltslash that doesnt give full damage, but then where begins the hiltslash, where begins the standard hit ? In cRPG it highly depends on your weapon animation and the PS you have.

[Kafein]

It already does...

There is a lot more chances the attack will glance / do low damage in the early part of the animation.



Not saying there isnt a "late" part of the hiltslash that doesnt give full damage, but then where begins the hiltslash, where begins the standard hit ? In cRPG it highly depends on your weapon animation and the PS you have.

I'd say an attack is hiltslashing if you do the move (right swing + left facehug or the opposite) and the attack connects so early you are forcing your opponent to block twice in a row.

It's quite easy to tell the difference during gameplay, since hiltslashes have their own "island" of not-glancing, separated from the actual zone that makes sense. More clearly, if you turn into your swing at an hiltslash level, you won't bounce, but if you turn slightly less, you will glance and if you turn a lot less you will basically do a normal attack and it won't bounce either.

Actually you are mistaken. It would be more effective with the current placement slightly behind your shoulder as you drag the entire length of the blade across the naked skin. However, an armored player should take 0 damage because you wont be cutting shit, no matter how long the blade you drag across it.

In this game, we are using all blades in a very western way, aka nearly bashing people with them, not cutting. It makes sense with straight swords, but with the curved ones it looks retarded.

[Butan]

I'd say an attack is hiltslashing if you do the move (right swing + left facehug or the opposite) and the attack connects so early you are forcing your opponent to block twice in a row.

If your enemy can do that, so can you; so if he can "pro" spam you, you need to try to enhance your style, aka : learning hiltslash too, mini-block+fast counter, chambers, better footwork, faster build/weapon, going in & out of range (the so called backpedalling and 180°)...
Everything that gives you an edge! Every tools that you are free to use in this game to become better!


The only argument I hear is : some of it looks stupid/unrealistic.

Tbh me too when I see some great "pro" moves being pulled, I dislike having to counter them, and do not like their "appearance", I dont use them and it makes me worse than I could be but I assume it. Like when your opponent looks to the ground so he can better conceal the weapons animations... sometimes they also feint/spam while being in stupid body angle position 


But I know better not to ask to remove them.

Why ?
Because if you do, you lessen the high skill ceiling of cRPG and switch to a too predictable (with the actual game speed) classic duel with two guys facing each other and looking themselves in the eyes. That would look "cool" but the average cRPG players would block 99.9% of the hits correctly and fights would never end in a 1v1.




I would be totally for "nerfing" the hilt slashing so the "island" you speak of is much much smaller or harder to reach (the point where you connect early with 100% damage); but you have to understand that if it totally disappeared, you would have only two cases : glance or normal hit. If you would glance totally everytime someone gets a bit in your way or your opponent moves to your side, not only offense would be bad, but defense too.
Without hiltslash there would be a dire need for a faster gamespeed too, for the reasons above.

As I see it, from my full STR point of view, in duels its one of the "lame" trick move you can use, its as good in offense as in defense (to counter a faster opponent's weapon or footwork), but its also one of the few trick one can still use against ganking. With turn speed nerf it already dented a lot of the berserker rage I liked a lot, if hilt slash was to disappear you would have totally 0 chance of fighting more than 2 guys properly face hugging you.
Would be kind of an indirect buff to agi because they could get around you so you glance and not them (which is already the case a bit... damn GTX always get me this way  ) which would be actually fair in the actual situation where STR dominate 

[Phew]

Speed up the combat, but make it so you actually have to roughly face someone to hurt them.

Both 2h sideswing animations have a 270 degree arc of death, which combined with lolstab, is why 2h makes up 60%+ of all melee damage now. That's three attack directions with exceptional killing power. 1h and pole each get one (left swing and right swing, respectively), with their other attack directions all having huge drawbacks. Overhead is basically the same for all weapon types (high risk/high reward), so that's basically a wash.

[Kafein]

If your enemy can do that, so can you; so if he can "pro" spam you, you need to try to enhance your style, aka : learning hiltslash too, mini-block+fast counter, chambers, better footwork, faster build/weapon, going in & out of range (the so called backpedalling and 180°)...
Everything that gives you an edge! Every tools that you are free to use in this game to become better!

I know that. It's not that easy with 1h weapons though, as longer weapons will always dictate the fight.

I simply hate the fact that some weirdly-named "technique" that is basically just spam works, and I would rather see it replaced by something that isn't spam. I mean, I personally spend a lof of my ingame time killing people because they blocked the wrong way, or because they opened their guard at the wrong time, but I never ever attack directly after being blocked. The game isn't less interesting or skill-based for me, I have the feeling it is more, because I don't have this cookie-cutter move. M&B combat doesn't need hiltslashing to be skillbased. Narrowing the effective sweetspot of 2h and pole sideswing animations down to 1h levels would make them more skillbased too.

[Butan]

I simply hate the fact that some weirdly-named "technique" that is basically just spam works

Dont you agree that there is spam and spam ?


When someone spams you because he is ignorant of the game, he is a newbie and needs to be taugh how to play.
When someone spams you because he is aware of the game, he bet on his speed/footwork and opponent weakness.



I do not share the pejorative concept of spam when its the late situation (still make me mad when I get spammed though).

Narrowing the effective sweetspot of 2h and pole sideswing animations down to 1h levels would make them more skillbased too.

Maybe not down to 1H level, but make it so its lenght based and not type of weapons based (this way a 2H and a 1H of the same lenght get the same sideswing hiltslash potential) and I would agree with you!

[Phew]

Length based sounds good, and make it follow the laws of physics while you are at it. Acceleration during the swing is a function of moment of inertia, which would be roughly (1/3)(mL^2) for most weapons. So short, light weapons should do their rated damage earlier in the swing, but level off pretty fast. Meanwhile, long, heavy weapons would glance early in their animation, but deliver devastating damage late in the swing.

1h vs. pole vs. 2h animation shouldn't matter in the the damage vs. % of swing animation calculation, it should just follow the above formula for every weapon and swing direction. Thrusts would only be a function of mass, not length, since it is a near pure translation.

Proper implementation of physics in the combat system would improve balance and reduce frustration for everyone.