Author Topic: If you could change the way strategus battles work...  (Read 4487 times)

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Offline Mustikki

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Re: If you could change the way strategus battles work...
« Reply #15 on: November 19, 2012, 12:37:52 am »
+10
I would like to get more influences from Single Player Mode.

See, there hero's have around 50-200 troops and kings 200-300 (but they are kings with lots of income). From those troops most are normal medium armored troops and only few knights with.
So what i want is to cut down the troop amount to get induvidual life more important and therefore healing tents and personal skill much more appreciated. That would require serious increase for troops cost and change for how they are taxed from daily base to hour check if troop amount have increased. Also gear would need to get higher to buy and repair/upkeep costs to cut down that there would not be shiny full knight armies all the time.

That could also cut down the battle time to lets say ~14mins = 60mins / 14mins = 4 battles per hour. When people would only have few lifes.
Of course then clans would need to move as packs having 5-10 guildies close each others and attack together castles to get the troop amount higher (like what single player is).
Also battles preparing time could get down too (dont know how much but a lot from current, if possible due to free server slot), that could require second server to handle all the battles, but if battle time would be only 6pm to midnight GMT that would still leave 4x6=24 normal/smaller battles per server. <- Battles only in primetime!

10 troops army could be "free" just like there are 10 friends ingame to have at max.

And so on, but taking elements from the single player. Back to the source! :D

Sorry for confused text but i'm getting ideas while typing.

Ps. After 3 weeks i'm having more time once again. So could spend some of that for map modifying/making :D
« Last Edit: November 19, 2012, 12:44:01 am by Mustikki »

Offline Bjarky

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Re: If you could change the way strategus battles work...
« Reply #16 on: November 19, 2012, 01:48:26 am »
+1
make items laying on the ground vanish faster or put a nr cap on them if possible, servers get quite laggy after a while with more and more items laying around.

Offline Malaclypse

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Re: If you could change the way strategus battles work...
« Reply #17 on: November 19, 2012, 01:52:45 am »
0
A real-time map with no delay before the battle. Also, go old style, get rid of time limits. The tears and QQ generated by these changes should sustain the developers for many years.
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Offline Gmnotutoo

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Re: If you could change the way strategus battles work...
« Reply #18 on: November 19, 2012, 01:55:36 am »
+5
Strategus Leveling System:

1. Make renown a personal thing dependent on reliability, performance rating based on score, and number of battles.

2. Find a system using the renown points to designate level up spots.

3. Create random Role-play skills that each character can level up.
These are just examples of what could be done.

Blacksmith: Increases chance to randomly repair items during a strat tick.
Luck: Increase chance of attacker gaining more gear after battles.
Recruiter: Increase chance to randomly recruit additional troops.
Leadership: Increases the max merc count above average.
Merchant: adds an increase modifier to distance trades.
Mercenary: Randomly awarded personal things the defeated army carries, spoils of war for people and not just the attacker.
Fleet Footed: Increases time of quick-march.
Carpenter: Can buy ladders, siege shields, construction sites & materials (Item availability dependent on skill level)
Caravan: Ability to carry more goods less slowly.
Seafaring: Ability to cross water, increases water speed.
Stealth: Other people outside of the clan have to get closer to you before they appear on the screen.
Espionage: While in a fief allows ability to mess with production or prosperity.
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Offline Smoothrich

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Re: If you could change the way strategus battles work...
« Reply #19 on: November 19, 2012, 01:57:51 am »
+9
Remove the strategus map part completely because its garbage no matter how much you add or rework it.  It's an unfun buggy facebook game that no one actually enjoys, with a time-consuming awkward interface, random esoteric mechanics that no one understands except exploiters, and it requires 90000 minutes of bullshit drama/micromanagement of pixels every week or two for 90 minutes of "fun" battles.

It's seriously REALLY bad, I mean it's better now than it was in strat 3 (which was abysmal), but strat 2 was probably the best because it was simple and streamlined, and made getting battles to happen with select gear the easiest.  But it was still pretty bad.

I'm not trying to be a dick but the strategus web-page part of the game just does so much wrong, people have adapted to it because its the only way to achieve unique strat battles, but everything about it just holds cRPG back.  I can't imagine clan leaders have ever actually enjoyed spending 60+ minutes just cycling gear between fiefs and armies.  You have NO idea how unfun this is, chadz, unless you've dealt with it enough for a clan.  People often can't even deal with the shit and just quit the game entirely (often with entire clans) because its so much stupid effort.

Basically just leave this Strat how it is (bad) and focus your efforts and time in making a better battle type that your fans can play 24/7, not 90 minutes once every two weeks or so at best. 

http://forum.meleegaming.com/suggestions-corner/conquest-gametype-combine-strategus-siege-and-battle-into-1-bad-assed-mode/

72 +1's (and counting) (including yours chadz lol) can't be wrong.  Kill Strategus, modernize cRPG gameplay with Conquest. 

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Offline Tydeus

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Re: If you could change the way strategus battles work...
« Reply #20 on: November 19, 2012, 04:08:55 am »
+1
Make maps about three times larger and have "capture points" throughout the map(initial spawn, a center spawn and two in between for a total of 5). Either side can capture any of the points. If one side captures all points, they route the enemy. To capture a point you need a minimum of 10% of your team on the point, to stop a capture you only need one person. This goes for battle, siege, village, castle, or town. Capture based on proximity, not like pressing some arbitrary key at the right time between enemy spawns to lower the flag. Having 5 times the amount of players on a capture point than what the owning faction has, should keep the owner's faction from spawning there.

Wave spawns rather than spawn time relying on death count(besides, this seems to cause excessive lag). Either place a battalion flag on top of a capture point or have the battalion leader set that point as the wave respawn point to have his battalion spawn there(just press 'f' while standing over it). 35 second wave respawn timer base, -5~ seconds per capture point your team controls. So starting timer is 30, wave respawn timer with 4 of 5 captured points is 15 seconds.

Retreat mechanics should be reworked so that players have to actually run to the edge of the map to retreat. Add retreat requirements so that players can't simply retreat at 10 tickets to keep from getting teleported. If you are overwhelmed in troop count, you should not be able to retreat easily in a field battle. If your faction is severely losing, retreat should be harder to initiate. Possibly have the retreat requirement look at the K:D ratio of the previous 5 minutes of the battle and if it's too low (1:2), you are then unable to retreat. If not enough people have died(retreating side isn't getting pressured, for example) retreat becomes possible.

Upon retreat initiation, whatever percent of players successfully retreated(rather than getting chased down and killed) would be the percent of troops left alive after the battle end. Finally, battle victors should have a chance to capture defeated commanders who would stay captured until freed or exchanged.

Drastically increase upkeep so that you see army sizes much closer to what single player has. Make reinforcement work the same way it works in single player. Allied army sets a guy to follow, when he enters into a battle anyone on follow will continue to move until he is within reinforce range, then his party will "reinforce" and the troops/equipment will be added to the what the final battle has. Players not already on follow can simply move their character until they are within reinforcement range, then chose to reinforce to the same effect.

Remove (could rework it somehow, maybe) the raid system.

Allow fief owners to delegate others with fief privileges. (Garrison manager?)

Have catapults cause permanent damage to structures unless a fief manager repairs them.

Battering rams.

Ballistae.

Fief upgrades: Stronger walls, upgraded gatehouse, moat, iron as opposed to wooden doors, pitch drops.
« Last Edit: November 19, 2012, 04:13:06 am by Tydeus »
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Offline [ptx]

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Re: If you could change the way strategus battles work...
« Reply #21 on: November 19, 2012, 05:01:45 am »
0
How about having people spawn in "units"? Say, you don't get either one big blob of people spawning or a steady stream, but instead, you get groups of, say, 10 people spawning together. Both initially and the reinforcements as well, with each side having multiple spawn points spread out along their end of the map.  Respawning could happen when a battalion drops below some x% strength. Dunno, if it should keep the same players in the same battalion, or just take whoever and respawn them in that battalion.

Perhaps this would shift the battles from 2 blob clusterfuck into a more spread out, tactical battle?

Would probably also require each "unit" having its own battalion set for all people in it by default upon spawning.


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Offline Warcat

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Re: If you could change the way strategus battles work...
« Reply #22 on: November 19, 2012, 07:00:32 am »
0
I would like to get more influences from Single Player Mode.

See, there hero's have around 50-200 troops and kings 200-300 (but they are kings with lots of income). From those troops most are normal medium armored troops and only few knights with.
So what i want is to cut down the troop amount to get induvidual life more important and therefore healing tents and personal skill much more appreciated. That would require serious increase for troops cost and change for how they are taxed from daily base to hour check if troop amount have increased. Also gear would need to get higher to buy and repair/upkeep costs to cut down that there would not be shiny full knight armies all the time.

10 troops army could be "free" just like there are 10 friends ingame to have at max.

And so on, but taking elements from the single player. Back to the source! :D

I pretty much agree with Mustikki here. I'd like to see things a bit more like SP. One feature that I like from SP that I think would be good in strat is a prisoner system. You can carry so many prisoners, and when you lose a battle, the prisoners you have on you join the other side and when you are defeated, any surviving soldiers you have become prisoners.
Also I would like to see smaller armies both on the field and in cities. A large garrison in a SP city is up to 500 people. And the biggest individual armies are around 300 people. Id like to see a mechanic put in that limits the amount of troops one many can carry. If we had separate leveling for our characters within strat, the re-inclusion of Charisma and Intelligence stats could be part of determining party size along with reknown which could get bonuses for being a land owner.
When It comes time for the actual battle, nearby armies could join the fight anytime while continuing to be a separate army (that could decide to retreat separately from the main forces if their leader is there and without the current army destroying retreat penalties) in the 24 hours before the battle, with a delay on when the tickets and gear is added to their side based on how long it took to join the battle.
Overall I'd think having smaller armies would lead to more battles for castes villages and cities by reducing the amount of nearly unassailable settlements that have thousands of well armed troops , and also like in SP, would benefit factions that are active and organized since you could not have 3-5 people leading all of a large factions troops.

Also, I saw a thing a while back where I think someone was considering making strat control in game instead of on the site. I would love it if strat had an SP like interface.

Also I think it might be a good idea if instead of all troops being the same and then having various gear assigned to them, a system could be created where factions have their own troop trees which they could recruit as plain villagers in villages and have them upgraded in castles and mercenaries which could be recruited in cities and would be the players regular characters. Factions with more territory could have more troop tree options. whereas landless would have one class.
« Last Edit: November 19, 2012, 07:19:22 am by Warcat »
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Offline Keshian

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Re: If you could change the way strategus battles work...
« Reply #23 on: November 19, 2012, 07:24:33 am »
+4
Dont do smaller armies - that would make 300 tickets a BIG battle, which only lasts 15 minutes.  You do 15 minutes pre-battle prep just doing role-call.  Longer fights are fun.  Not sure what Tydeus, Mustikki, and Warcat will think will happen when every battle is tiny.  Most of those battles already are boring and tough to fill rosters and wayyy too short.  If anything make battle sizes larger - more like strat 1 and 2 where epic fights were a LOT more common.  All the good fights people talk about this strat are the big cityd efenses and significant castle defenses or large field battles.  Those tiny little fights  of 300 v 200 are hardly worth remembering.
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Offline Warcat

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Re: If you could change the way strategus battles work...
« Reply #24 on: November 19, 2012, 07:30:54 am »
-1
I've had plenty SP battles last longer than 15 minutes. Smaller armies doesn't have to mean smaller battles. Just like in SP, if you've got 10 guys joining in with 150-200 or more troops, you've got yourself a decent sized long battle. Perhaps an accompany option wouldn't be a bad idea. As it is, those big city defenses hardly ever happen because it's so hard to build up anything that can challenge them while keeping your own places protected.
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Offline dodnet

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Re: If you could change the way strategus battles work...
« Reply #25 on: November 19, 2012, 08:28:40 am »
0
Change the spawning system, I hate all the spawn rapes and stuff and capping flags before the battle has at least begun. Spawn in groups from the map sides like in single player where you fight till one side is dead and then the next wave of enemies appears.

For caravan attacks I would like more specific battles like the defender has to defend an actual caravan and if he loses the position he loses the battle.

And remove the all-masterwork-clone armies. I hate it that every army of a large clan everywhere on the map consists of the same clones with full armor and masterwork items. I would like more diversity here, like different classes for archers, cav, polearm, officers, and so on.

Maybe even special roles for commanders, where killing the enemy commander makes their morale drop.
The logic of war seems to be that if a belligerent can fight he will fight.

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Offline MURDERTRON

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Re: If you could change the way strategus battles work...
« Reply #26 on: November 19, 2012, 10:00:07 am »
0
I pretty much agree with Mustikki here. I'd like to see things a bit more like SP. One feature that I like from SP that I think would be good in strat is a prisoner system. You can carry so many prisoners, and when you lose a battle, the prisoners you have on you join the other side and when you are defeated, any surviving soldiers you have become prisoners.


Prisoner system is too easy to abuse between friendly factions once a significant number of prisoners was taken from actual enemies.  You could have a certain number of loser survivors be automatically converted into troops for the victor.  Also enemy troops KOed with blunt weapons could also have a percentage automatically converted into troops for the victor as well.  The downside is that if you attacked someone with blunt weapons and lost, the victor would be able to recover some of their troops lost to blunt KOs.  That way blunts have a higher risk/reward and all cut/pierce stuff plays to more of a scorched earth policy.  You could even have another percentage of loser survivors converted into prisoners which would essentially just be goods.
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Offline buba

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Re: If you could change the way strategus battles work...
« Reply #27 on: November 19, 2012, 12:01:47 pm »
0
Caravan battle's could be made more fun by letting the defenders defend an area with a few carts like suggested before.
Let the defenders set up a defensive area like you can in With fire and sword.
Caravan defenders need a certain amount of trade goods otherwise it would be exploited by everyone.

Never understood why you need to kill every single one in a battle, I feel that a capture the point system might not be very original, but its a proven system.
And could work within strat and crpg battles.

Time limit on mayor battles makes sense i guess, however on very large siege's it favours the defenders to much.
Not sure how to work around this, but the general feeling is that the favour is on the defenders side in strat.

This is a natural thing of course, defenders should have an advantage.
But as it stands now, strat is slowing down to a crawl, instead of it being the big battle bringer it (supposed?) used to be.

I support the multi spawn points, commander/sergeant vote's and differentiating items for army's.
How all of this is to be implemented, I have no idea.

Thanks for asking input,
 


Offline Vibe

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Re: If you could change the way strategus battles work...
« Reply #28 on: November 19, 2012, 12:28:07 pm »
+2
Well, I think that Strategus battles themselves (the in-game part) are completely fine. It's the game around it that isn't much fun.

Offline Bjord

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Re: If you could change the way strategus battles work...
« Reply #29 on: November 19, 2012, 12:44:24 pm »
+1
Fiefs now need to be upgraded in order to be able to buy certain types of equipment. I.e if you want horses, you build a stables, if you want ranged (throwing included), you build an archery range, blacksmith for weapons and a market for trading goods. +3 items will only be possible to buy in Castle fiefs once you've done the necessary upgrades to the pertaining structure. Building stuff costs PP. Prosperity can be boosted by building structures like a hospital, general store, bath house, market, etc etc. Villages starts with farms etc.

Attacking on the strat map could be done in two ways: Either you attack with an army under your command, or you create an AI commander (10, 000 gold or so) whose waypoint can be set. You still have to outfit the AI commander's army. The downside of AI commanders is that renown gain is reduced by 50%. AI commanders can do anything but trade, this is still only available for players.

That way, Strategus gets a more in-depth and dynamic setting. Attacks of any kind will be more common, and wearing fiefs down before you launch a coup de grace becomes valid (taking for granted that the defender no longer gains 50% of the items used in the battle).

Currently, Strategus feels like the Cold War. Ironically enough, DRZs are the main cause of this.
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