The corpse soak mechanic and downed horses

[Pentecost]

Overall, I'm quite happy that the developers added a corpse soak mechanic a few patches ago. Nothing was more frustrating than starting a right swing in the course of a pitched battle, only for a teammate to kill the target of that swing and then get TK'd by it. Certainly, with respect to infantry, I would call it a step forward.

There is, however, one aspect of the mechanic I would like to see reviewed, and that is downed horses eating hits meant for their riders. It's not always an issue, of course. There are plenty of times when the rider is thrown far enough away from the horse corpse that other members of my team and I can get clean hits on him. Similarly, if the rider is reared, quickly surrounded, and has his horse brought down while he is stationary, he will usually die even if his horse is huge simply because of the sheer volume of stabs and overheads pouring down on him.

The problem is when a lone spearman rears and brings down a lone rider. While the spearman is theoretically supposed to have the chance to land maybe one or two hits on the downed rider and possibly finish him off, there are more than a few instances where he may not be able to get in a good hit for no reason other than the way the horse fell when it died. Specifically, if the horse corpse settles directly between the spearman and the rider, there is a fair chance that any stabs or overheads will be absorbed by the corpse and that the rider will have already gotten up by the time the spearman has repositioned.

If this was not an intended change, then I would like it if something was done to correct the situation. The simplest solution in my mind would be to just disable the corpse soak on horse corpses, but perhaps there are other measures that could also be tried.

[Lichen]

I think it adds more depth and realism to the game. I guess players only like that when it helps their bad playing and not when it requires them to play better.

[Moncho]

I for one love that change, even though I am not cav and do not like them.
Why? Because it makes people who have just dismounted a cav think. Before you would have a bunch of mad teammates jumping in for the kill. Now if they do that, the horse might take the damage, so they have to think. And as people are a bit more careful, maybe it even helps reducing teamhits around the dead horse

[Miwiw]

I'm playing cav again since about 2 weeks. Last time I played cav was before that patch.
I must say that it doesn't really change that much. 9 out of 10 times if my horse dies and I get dismounted, my horse doesn't absorb any hits but the weapons hit me. In 6 out of 10 cases I also die during a dismount.

That's pretty balanced for me imo. It's also not like I wasn't fine with dying instantly when being dismounted as I'm quite useless on the ground anyway without any athletics.

[Pentecost]

I think it adds more depth and realism to the game.

I think you're mistaken. I fail to see how the depth of the game is improved by the fact that I am able to stab to death someone I have just reared on my pole character if his horse fell over a certain random way but that I am unable to stab the same individual on the same horse to death in the exact same situation if his horse fell over in a certain other random way.

Also, bringing up "realism" in game balance discussions is counterproductive. A horse does not have unlimited stamina in real life, a horse will be severely injured if its rider somehow gets it to run into a wall at top speed in real life, and a rider who's thrown out of his saddle when his galloping horse is killed under him stands a good chance of breaking his neck in real life; however, it's precisely because this is a game and implementing changes reflecting these things would be bad from the standpoint of balancing the game that you do not see me suggesting them.

I guess players only like that when it helps their bad playing and not when it requires them to play better.

Cool ad hominem, bro.

[Kafein]

So ganking on them in a majority of cases is not enough, you want to autokill downed riders or something ?

[Pentecost]

I'm saying I think a mechanic that results in a downed rider dying in some circumstances for no reason other than the fact that his horse's corpse fell in one direction and surviving in other circumstances for no reason other than the fact that his horse's corpse fell in a different direction is not a very good one and should be reviewed. You are free to disagree, of course.

[Bjord]

You are free to disagree, of course.

Thanks.

[San]

I'd rather not get a free pass when I screw up and get dehorsed. I rarely ever die if I am dehorsed by a single person after that change. Most of the time with full health since they hit the horse.

[Riddaren]

Specifically, if the horse corpse settles directly between the spearman and the rider, there is a fair chance that any stabs or overheads will be absorbed by the corpse and that the rider will have already gotten up by the time the spearman has repositioned.

So you are suggesting that something logical and realistic should be changed to the opposite?

A good player goes around the horse corpse before hitting the rider.
A lazy/bad player tries to hit through the corpse.

You want to remove that difference, making the game less skill based. I wonder why...

[Corwin]

Just add a bit of realism and make those falling from the horse taking at least some damage from the fall.

[Lichen]

It's funny how many times now players would TK/TW each other if it weren't for the new extended soak. I've seen many times some player go down and immediately after 2 arrows hit the body which would have hit teamates before. But when the same system prevents them from their easy helpless rider/dehorse kills then that's a 'problem'. As usual people want only what benefits them.

[Rumblood]

Horses don't poof into the atmosphere when killed. Yes, sometimes they will fall in a manner that prevents you from getting a free hit. Such is life.