Author Topic: Revert the turnspeed nerf for most weapons  (Read 9079 times)

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Offline a_bear_irl

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Revert the turnspeed nerf for most weapons
« on: November 15, 2012, 09:19:31 am »
+42
  • when i say "most", i mean "everything but pike, longspear, heavy lance" (and reduce it for those)
  • no other weapons ever had a "wiggling" problem, and there were only a few people who were good enough at spinning around with a pike to really cause problems for the average melee player.
  • i have never talked to anyone who thinks the nerf was a good idea, aside from CMP
  • made overhands extinct in duels
  • shit all over 2d polearms (how many people do you see still using english bill, swiss halberd, long awlpike, the new polearms[i can think of a single guy who i see using a long awlpike regularly, nobody who uses a swiss halberd or the new poles, and badplayer+myself using english bill occasionally)
  • made teamhits harder to avoid
  • made 1h stab almost unusable
  • slows down the game


as it stands i don't see a reason why this is still in. the only real positive is keeping people with pikes from doing jump+wiggles easily, but hoplites and 2h can point-blank now without even having to wiggle or spin, so what's the difference? as for negatives, just see above.

I propose: Aside from Long Spear, Pike, and Heavy Lance, remove the turn-speed nerf. On those weapons, reduce whatever the current nerf value is to 75%. Hoplites can keep the nerf as it is now.
« Last Edit: November 15, 2012, 10:46:03 am by a_bear_irl »
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Offline Tears of Destiny

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Re: Revert the turnspeed nerf for most weapons
« Reply #1 on: November 15, 2012, 09:34:25 am »
+11
I'm not sure that I am so comfortable with the eternal-lightsaber-wiggle two hander move.
I'm not normal and I don't pretend so, my approach is pretty much a bomb crescendo.
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Offline a_bear_irl

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Re: Revert the turnspeed nerf for most weapons
« Reply #2 on: November 15, 2012, 09:51:22 am »
+6
I'm not sure that I am so comfortable with the eternal-lightsaber-wiggle two hander move.

the 2h stab is already completely broken atm, like it's more dangerous than an awlpike used to be because of how quickly it activates, you could probably turn to face someone and stab them point blank just as fast as you could "lightsaber" them

that's its own thread, though
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Offline [ptx]

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Re: Revert the turnspeed nerf for most weapons
« Reply #3 on: November 15, 2012, 10:33:04 am »
-12

Offline a_bear_irl

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Re: Revert the turnspeed nerf for most weapons
« Reply #4 on: November 15, 2012, 10:42:47 am »
+2
Are we playing the same game?

Oh, right, NA.

what does this post even mean

edit: i forgot to say something about hoplites in the OP: hoplites suck and i hate them, nothing like a minute of the most boring downblock->attack sequence possible until you break their shield to spice up your crpg experience
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Offline Piok

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Re: Revert the turnspeed nerf for most weapons
« Reply #5 on: November 15, 2012, 12:02:18 pm »
+1
Are we playing the same game?

Oh, right, NA.
Even on EU you don't see many 2d or 4d polearms and most of them are hoplites so 1d before shield goes out.
But you see swarms of longspearmen and pikers.

Offline BADPLAYER_old2

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Re: Revert the turnspeed nerf for most weapons
« Reply #6 on: November 15, 2012, 03:25:31 pm »
+5
I'm not sure that I am so comfortable with the eternal-lightsaber-wiggle two hander move.

2handed thrust actually got a pretty massive buff since it activates so early, i'd rather have a "lightsaber wiggle 2h thrust" than one that thrusts instantly and is massively hard to block with any amount of delay (ie 100+ ping  :cry:)you can beat 90% of the playerbase by just thrusting with a 2hander and never sideswinging. I would say most definitely that the 2handed thrust is better now than it was before, but it is the only one that got a buff and probably the least deserving of a buff too.
The polearm thrust is not bad now, it is kinda worse since the 2h one has become the "instastab" but it is still easily usable.
And the 1handed stab is extremely hard to use now, not that it was too easy before but now it is even more niche than ever.

The problem though with the spin nerf is overheads, it pretty much destroyed using overheads in duels for 2h and polearm, and most 1handers who I see overhead have to hold it and try real hard to predict where the enemy is gonna go to make sure they don't miss. Not to mention now how many times have you seen a dude on battle run into a group of teammates spamming sideswings and noone can hit him with an overhead and instead usually hit teammates? It is just annoying and unfun in my opinion and I don't really see any reason why overheads needed a nerf.
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Offline oprah_winfrey

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Re: Revert the turnspeed nerf for most weapons
« Reply #7 on: November 15, 2012, 03:37:59 pm »
0
The amount of deaths I have from going to spin stab cav coming from behind is not fun, adds on to still trying to perform lolstabs and missing the enemy in 1v1 situations.
« Last Edit: November 15, 2012, 04:04:02 pm by oprah_winfrey »

Offline Teeth

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Re: Revert the turnspeed nerf for most weapons
« Reply #8 on: November 15, 2012, 04:05:08 pm »
+21
Few people liked it ever, anyway. Sadly the dev's don't care, I've seen this with a dozen changes. Most of the changes they do are poorly researched cause their play time with the game is minimal and instead of listening to the community, they do what they think is better, which rarely is better. Ofcourse they should not react to the communitys first reaction to a patch, cause we don't like change all that much. Well written, rational posts a bit later should atleast be considered though.

From looking at the current gameplay, it basically nerfed skilled teamplayers and buffed spamming noobs. You see it all the time, an 8 athlethics crossbower jumps into the middle of an enemy group and can run around swinging for 30 seconds, cause no one is able to hit him. Normally in the vicinity of teammates, one would use precise stabs or overheads to minimize the risk of hitting a teammate. Nowadays though 8 athlethics means that they sidestep faster than you can turn, because the turn rate was very, very drastic.

(Another great change, earlier active attacks against friendlies, which few people liked but they refused to revert. Nerfed teamplay as well. Well, atleast that was a nerf to sideswinging noobs. The devs know that if you just don't care for long enough, people will accept the new shitty situation. Same is going to happen to the turn rate nerf ofcourse.)

Sideswinging, the easy noob attacks, got their effectiveness increased a lot, relative to turn rate nerf affected attacks.

Devs also didn't quite formulate accurately what their aims were with the turn rate nerf. I assume it is lolpiking and lolstabbing. As far as 2h stab goes, that is way worse now, cause it can do facehug insta hits as well as very late dragging hits. It's truly omnipotent. Even though you could wiggle it like crazy before, atleast the hit always came at the same moment and chambering was a reliable strategy. As far as lolspearing goes, that is still extremely effective. I haven't lolspeared before the change, but I know it is pretty damn strong now once you work out how to do it.

Another valid tactic that I used as a 1h and as a german poleaxer against cav. Chambering their lances to hit their horses in the ass. That doesn't work anymore. Overhead chambers in general are quite fucked now with short weapons.

TL;DR version, it broke everything that it tried to fix, just in a different way and broke a few things on the side. Simultaneously it took a bunch of skill out of the game by promoting the already easy to use sideswings.

Offline Nordwolf

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Re: Revert the turnspeed nerf for most weapons
« Reply #9 on: November 15, 2012, 04:17:00 pm »
0
I think turnspeed shouldn't also be removed from all crushthrough, and increased there.

Offline Piok

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Re: Revert the turnspeed nerf for most weapons
« Reply #10 on: November 15, 2012, 04:21:12 pm »
0
If removed then from everything  :!:

Offline CrazyCracka420

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Re: Revert the turnspeed nerf for most weapons
« Reply #11 on: November 15, 2012, 04:22:51 pm »
+1
I personally don't like with my heavy lance, if I try to turn into the stab at all it will just glance when I hit, even if I'm just doing it slightly (as you would do IRL to get more power behind a thrust...you'd turn into it by rotating your hips and upper body)
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Offline Tzar

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Re: Revert the turnspeed nerf for most weapons
« Reply #12 on: November 15, 2012, 04:30:59 pm »
+2
Agree with the OP this needs to be implemented  :wink:
I've never played a server where people split up as much or as often as on EU1.  No wonder range is having a field day.

Offline rustyspoon

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Re: Revert the turnspeed nerf for most weapons
« Reply #13 on: November 15, 2012, 04:58:32 pm »
+4
I like the turnspeed nerf as it added an extra element of skill to the game.

Previously, you could make up for lack of skill/bad judgement with a quick flick of the wrist. Now you need to have good footwork and be able to predict your opponent's movement to land overheads reliably. Good change in my opinion.

However, the point when a weapon is active on a thrust REALLY needs to be looked at and fixed individually for each weapon class.
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Offline Piok

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Re: Revert the turnspeed nerf for most weapons
« Reply #14 on: November 15, 2012, 05:03:22 pm »
+2
Hehe I did not know that One must be rocket engineer to smash someone head in Crpg.